Newbie needs help! Please :)

[eknuds01]

Hello all,

A forum member at audioasylum told me to come here because I had some questions about amplification for my Martin Logans. I have the ML Aerius that I received as a Christmas present about 5-6 years ago. I love them, but I know these speakers need good, solid power.

Currently I have a Yamaha Dolby Pro logic (yes, it's old) amp that delivers about 70 wpc.

I have always been fascinated with high end audio gear. I've been in college/grad school for the past 9 years (finished the doctorate back in June in mechanical engineering) and I never had the money to upgrade to a better amp.

I am thinking of going the seperate component route. I like to listen to music, more than movies, but I do enjoy the occasional DVD from blockbuster. Anyway, there seems to be 100s of different choices or combinations between tube and solid state amps and pre amps.

Also, the price range varies considerably. I am familiar with a few of the big brands (Conrad Johnson, Krell, NAD, etc) but not all of them and I am open to any suggestions. Everytime I open a magazine I see so many different brands and all they all promise superior sound and performance.

I don't have an unlimited budget and I was looking at the NAD C162 and C272 combination. I can buy that new for about $1300. So I'd like to keep the budget under $1500, say. I believe NAD has a reputation for being very affordable for high end components.

Also, I live in maryland. Are there any good high end stores around?

Thanks in advance for reading my post. I look forward to the replies. Also if anyone has any good books or websites that would be a good primer on high end audio, that would be greatly appreciated. I know that amps have various specs, and I am not sure what they all mean.

Erik

 

[aerius007]

Rotel is affordable and powers the logans just fine. Do you want new only or is used ok?

 

[eknuds01]

Rotel is affordable and powers the logans just fine. Do you want new only or is used ok?

Used equipment is OK, too. I will look at Rotel as well. Thanks!

 

[aerius007]

One of the most enjoyable systems I have heard was an older pair of aerius with Conrad Johnson. It was also the first time I heard logans and it floored me. The soundstage was amazing and the speakers couldnt have been more transparent. If you can find a used CJ amp for your budget it might be the route to go. If I had to pick Krell or CJ to match with logans, I would pick the CJ. Thats coming from someone that used to have a Krell with a pair of aerius.

 

[sleepysurf]

If the Yamaha has RCA "Pre-Outs", you can continue using it as a Pre/Pro, and just feed the audio signal to a separate quality 2-channel amp. I previously used a Yamaha RX-V1000 receiver feeding a Sunfire Cinema Grand to drive my Aerius i's, and was very pleased. You can find a good used amp well within your budget on Audiogon.

Do you have the Aerius or Aerius i's? The latter has dual binding posts (one set for woofers, one set for stat panels), which allows biamping. I strongly recommend bi-amping, if at all possible.

 

[eknuds01]

If the Yamaha has RCA "Pre-Outs", you can continue using it as a Pre/Pro, and just feed the audio signal to a separate quality 2-channel amp. I previously used a Yamaha RX-V1000 receiver feeding a Sunfire Cinema Grand to drive my Aerius i's, and was very pleased. You can find a good used amp well within your budget on Audiogon.

Do you have the Aerius or Aerius i's? The latter has dual binding posts (one set for woofers, one set for stat panels), which allows biamping. I strongly recommend bi-amping, if at all possible.

I have the Aerius i's.

By biamping, you mean using a seperate amp for the highs and lows, that is one amp that drives the highs and the other drives the low end?

 

[sleepysurf]

Yes, there are a variety of ways to do it. What I did was use a Sunfire Cinema Grand 200 five channel amp, which allows you to share a SINGLE input with BOTH the front and rear amp channels. I fed the front output to my Stat Panels (using either the voltage or current outputs), and the rear output to the Woofers (using the voltage outputs). This required a shotgun run of biwire speaker cables, but IMHO was well worth it.

Alternatively, you can MIX amps, using a tube amp for the Stats, and SS for the woofers. This route takes more work to ensure the amps are properly matched.

See details on this older thread...
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=2082&highlight=biamp+aerius

If by chance you are interested in a used Sunfire Cinema Grand, email me, as I am about to sell mine (can't bi-amp the Summits).

 

[Pcar928fan]

For the money used Rotel gear is tough to beat. Some here do not care for Rotel gear, but I have to say I have really liked the sound I get from my system (#156 I think) using the Rotel gear.

 

[GregLett]

Rotel gets my vote. Rotel is hard to beat for the money, new or used.

 

[JohnP]

I think that Classe on M.L. is hard to beat. This amp would do wonderfully on your speakers, I have seen quite a few close up photo's of this amp as well as have spoken to him on several different occasions and he is a straight shooter. Check this one out: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1173455357

 

[DTB300]

Used equipment is OK, too. I will look at Rotel as well. Thanks!

With used, you can really get some high quality products for a little more than new mid-fi stuff and get multitudes of better sound. Be patient, watch, and be ready to purchase when the time comes. Your patience will pay off in the end.

Dan

 

[Charliemike]

Take a look at Outlaw Audio. Good, quality products at good prices.

I looked at the NAD but without being able to hear them I decided to go with a Denon 2307CI and a Rotel RB-933 3-ch amp (300w/4ohm).

If you can listen to something before you buy the better.

 

[aliveatfive]

Check out Overture in Willmington, Delaware. They sell Logans and electronics from several good high-end firms including Audio Research. ARC stuff, in my opinion, puts Logans on a higher plateau. Audition it, decide if you like it and use your impressions as a benchmark for other components.

 

[eknuds01]

Wow! THanks for all of the responses fellas.

I thought I read somewhere on here that we should avoid the audio stores? Was that in jest? Most people have told me to try out a few of these high end amps, which makes sense before spending all of that money!

 

[theWB]

Wow! THanks for all of the responses fellas.

I thought I read somewhere on here that we should avoid the audio stores? Was that in jest?

Beware!!! Joeyitis is alive and well, can strike at an given moment or time!
Easily contracted here at this site,(while perusing other members systems), or at your local high end audio store.

Your wallet is not safe!!

Be afraid, Be very afraid!

 

[eknuds01]

Beware!!! Joeyitis is alive and well, can strike at an given moment or time!
Easily contracted here at this site,(while perusing other members systems), or at your local high end audio store.

Your wallet is not safe!!

Be afraid, Be very afraid!

Joeyitis???

 

[TomDac]

"Joey-itis" refers to our beloved Joey V. - a member on this site who upgrades every 3 months or so....

He'll chime in eventually.. once he stops crying because of yesterday's SuperBowl game.

 

[theWB]

Joeyitis???

I don't know the official medical diagnosis for the disease, I'll leave that explanation for the Doc himself.

 

[kcl]

Actually, there are some studies that conclude that Joeyitis is actually caused by exposure to a sub-atomic partical called "Upgradium", which is emitted from many kinds of high-end audio gear, especially electrostatic panels, Class-A amplifiers, and Triode Valves. Exposure to Upgradium cause symptoms of restlessness, the desire to spend money, and acute discomfort associated with miniscule imperfections in sound reproduction.

Strangely, the emissions of Upgradium are almost negligable in "consumer-grade" gear. Consumer-grade gear does emit copious amounts of another subatomic particle called "Hometheatrogen". Symptoms of exposure to this particle are indiference to the quality of mirange and high-frequency sonics, an uncontrollable desire for MORE BASS, and a complete lack of ability to hear high levels of noise and distortion.

Unfortunately, there is no known cure for Upgradium exposure, but symptoms may be temorarily relieved by using newer equipment in one's system. Apparently, Upgradium emissions start at nearly zero with high-end gear, but increase with the age of any given component. By frequently replacing equipment with newer gear, one may minimize exposure.

Exposure to Hometheatrogen may be instantly cured with high doses of Upgradium, however, the treatment is, as you may see, as bad as the disease...

This excellent post from the "Is a Descent an overkill with a Summit" thread gives good information regarding this insidious malady.

 

[HsvToolFool]

Hello Erik,

#1) Networking is the best way to learn. Visit high-end stores in your area and hang out. A few local audiophiles are usually hanging around Saturday mornings gossiping and window shopping, unless the owner/sales people are snobs. A good store is happy to introduce you to the locals.

The better high-end stores also host workshops a few times each year where vendors visit to talk about their products and give advice on using them. Even if you're not interested in the sales pitch, that's a great place to meet audiophiles in your area. Once people know you, they'll invite you over to hear their systems. You can determine what your likes are and what kind of equipment meets those needs.

#2) The web is your best resource for reading. Go to AudiogoN and write down brand names on whatever piques your interest, then search for reviews. Visit forums and read the latest gossip. Read reports on the latest CES.

#3) AudiogoN! I. Love. AudiogoN. Simply THE best way to tell how well a brand or component retains value. Buy a brand new mass-produced amp, receiver, or CD/DVD player from Tweeters or BestBuy, and it's practically worthless 3 years later. Buy a used high-end component, and you can sell it for about what you paid for it 3 years later. Used high-end gear costs more up front, but you'll lose MUCH less money later if you want to upgrade. Like a new car, all the depreciation on new gear occurs when you carry it out the door. But unlike a car, a top-shelf audio component practically lasts forever.

But beware... buy local if you can. It's worth a few hours drive to close a deal in person. There are many thieves on AudiogoN and Ebay. RUN AWAY from sellers hiding their identity! The last time I tried to buy a high-end preamp, the seller demanded a wire transfer, only gave me a cell phone number, and used a HotMail email address. He might as well have been in Nigeria.

Personal checks and bank checks are slowest but safest because the seller can't cash it without a photo ID and a signature. So you can track them if necessary. Paypal is convenient for small purchases, but useless for security. Don't make large purchases using Paypal. Never, ever, use a wire transfer. Never. If you're in a hurry, you're about to make a mistake.

You want to buy used gear from hobbyists just like you. They bought it new a few years ago, and now they want to upgrade. They're not trying to make a buck off stolen property. Talk to them on the phone and get a good vibe. Walk away if they want to rush the deal, seem uptight, or are annoying that you're asking questions. Get the unit's serial number and call the manufacturer. They can tell you when the component was made and where it was shipped for sale. That info usually confirms the seller's claims of the first owner and such. Refusal to provide the serial number is also a big warning sign.

Number one rule in buying used gear: Never want something so bad that you can't walk away from the deal. If you can't walk away, just tattoo "Sucker" on your forehead now and get it over with.

Now that the general stuff is out of the way...

I would avoid tubes until you're more experienced and have a larger budget. Tubes are not as high-maintanence as they used to be, but they're still tubes and must be replaced every few years.

If you lean more towards music and don't mind using stereo for movies, I'd cruise AudiogoN for a Krell 400xi integrated amp. These little guys have great reviews and I've heard an impressive SL3 demo using the older Krell 300i model. You'll get excellent imaging and plenty of bass from your Aerius. But between your Aerius panels and the Krell, any harshness in your player (CD, DVD) will be exposed...

Krell 400xi integrated amp

This guy is asking a bit too much. But if you keep an eye out and can pick up one of these for around $1250, it would be an awesome deal and a great match for the Aerius.