Hocky
Well-known member
The stators will hold a charge for a while and will continue to play because of that.
New Electromotions defective!!!!
- Thread starter Questy
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roberto
Well-known member
Hola. I am going to chime here... here is your explanation... from ML Univerity: The MartinLogan electrostatic diaphragm uses three key parts; the MicroPerf stator, the ClearSpar and the diaphragm. See below.
Stator
The first key piece to the operation of a MartinLogan electrostatic speaker is the MicroPerf stator. Each ESL assembly has two; one on the front and one on the back. These steel stators are each insulated via a proprietary method in our facilities in Lawrence, Kansas. This allows the stators to conduct up to 12,000 volts and yet be completely safe to the touch. The term MicroPerf refers to a MartinLogan patented technology of using a surface that utilizes a larger quantity of smaller holes over its surface. This allows more air to flow and thus more sound output created from a smaller panel.
ClearSpar
Our ClearSpar technology utilizes technology derived straight from the cost no object Statement e2 loudspeakers. This technology enhances the transparent look of the speaker, increases efficiency and dynamics and acts as an excursion limiting device. Many folks confuse that these provide the electrical energy directly to the diaphragm. This is absolutely NOT the case. The ClearSpars serve several purposes one of the main ones is related to excursion.
In a conventional, or “cone”, loudspeaker there are several parts that act as the suspension; the most important of which are the spider and the surround. These two structures prevent the cone from traveling too far and allowing the voice coil to travel outside of the gap. If it did, it would damage the speaker.
The MartinLogan patented ClearSpar acts much like the suspension in a conventional driver. Its design prevents the diaphragm from traveling to far and touching the surface of the MicroPerf stator. Remember, both the diaphragm and the stators receive an electrical charge. If they were to touch, it will likely arc and damage the loudspeaker. This design is a MartinLogan exclusive and is one of the reasons our panels set new standards for reliability in the ESL world. The technology truly makes it next to impossible to damage the panel from being over driven and makes it one of the most reliable parts of our loudspeaker systems.
Diaphragm
The diaphragm is made from a .0005-inch thick polyethylene terathylate… a material whose consistency reminds most people of window tinting film. We lovingly refer to it as "PET" film. This PET material is treated to a plasma deposition process that took over three years to perfect. This process applies a uniform, durable, conductive coating to the film that enables a high-voltage charge to flow over its entire surface. Mass-less for all practical purposes, this diaphragm can reproduce clarity through the entire range of human hearing.
The electrical information from your amplifier passes through an audio transformer which is responsible for taking the incoming signal and increasing it to a higher voltage. This signal passes into each of the stators with opposing polarity. In other words the front and rear stators are always opposite charges. If the front is positive, the back is negative or vice versa.
The sandwiched diaphragm receives a consistent positive charge. This charge comes from a power supply that receives its energy from your electrical outlet. This is the reason you must plug an electrostatic speaker into the wall...
As the signal passes through the stators, the positively (+) charged diaphragm is attracted to the stator surface with the opposite or negative (-) charge. During this process it is also being pushed, or shoved away by the stator with the positive (+) charge. This causes the diaphragm to physically move forward and back at an extremely rapid pace, which in turn moves air. When we move air we create? Sound! See below.
Every MartinLogan electrostatic loudspeaker is hand built. From applying the proprietary insulation surface to the stator, to stretching the diaphragm and sandwiching it between the stators… old world craftsmanship meets new technology. It’s no wonder the “Stat Panel Room”, as it is affectionately called, is the most memorable experience folks have on their trip to our facilities...
So the electrostatic speaker behavior is like a big capacitor. It is not resistive as the ribbon made or flat panels like Maggies, and are not as dynamic speakers that are coils (inductive). The capacitors have a property to have charge and save it. The capacitor charges itself. This is why even being uplug from the mains AC, their charge starts to produce that sound, until there is no charge at all. If you can listen something, it is due to the voltage applied by the amp (very little voltage). Happy listening,
Roberto.
Stator
The first key piece to the operation of a MartinLogan electrostatic speaker is the MicroPerf stator. Each ESL assembly has two; one on the front and one on the back. These steel stators are each insulated via a proprietary method in our facilities in Lawrence, Kansas. This allows the stators to conduct up to 12,000 volts and yet be completely safe to the touch. The term MicroPerf refers to a MartinLogan patented technology of using a surface that utilizes a larger quantity of smaller holes over its surface. This allows more air to flow and thus more sound output created from a smaller panel.
ClearSpar
Our ClearSpar technology utilizes technology derived straight from the cost no object Statement e2 loudspeakers. This technology enhances the transparent look of the speaker, increases efficiency and dynamics and acts as an excursion limiting device. Many folks confuse that these provide the electrical energy directly to the diaphragm. This is absolutely NOT the case. The ClearSpars serve several purposes one of the main ones is related to excursion.
In a conventional, or “cone”, loudspeaker there are several parts that act as the suspension; the most important of which are the spider and the surround. These two structures prevent the cone from traveling too far and allowing the voice coil to travel outside of the gap. If it did, it would damage the speaker.
The MartinLogan patented ClearSpar acts much like the suspension in a conventional driver. Its design prevents the diaphragm from traveling to far and touching the surface of the MicroPerf stator. Remember, both the diaphragm and the stators receive an electrical charge. If they were to touch, it will likely arc and damage the loudspeaker. This design is a MartinLogan exclusive and is one of the reasons our panels set new standards for reliability in the ESL world. The technology truly makes it next to impossible to damage the panel from being over driven and makes it one of the most reliable parts of our loudspeaker systems.
Diaphragm
The diaphragm is made from a .0005-inch thick polyethylene terathylate… a material whose consistency reminds most people of window tinting film. We lovingly refer to it as "PET" film. This PET material is treated to a plasma deposition process that took over three years to perfect. This process applies a uniform, durable, conductive coating to the film that enables a high-voltage charge to flow over its entire surface. Mass-less for all practical purposes, this diaphragm can reproduce clarity through the entire range of human hearing.
The electrical information from your amplifier passes through an audio transformer which is responsible for taking the incoming signal and increasing it to a higher voltage. This signal passes into each of the stators with opposing polarity. In other words the front and rear stators are always opposite charges. If the front is positive, the back is negative or vice versa.
The sandwiched diaphragm receives a consistent positive charge. This charge comes from a power supply that receives its energy from your electrical outlet. This is the reason you must plug an electrostatic speaker into the wall...
As the signal passes through the stators, the positively (+) charged diaphragm is attracted to the stator surface with the opposite or negative (-) charge. During this process it is also being pushed, or shoved away by the stator with the positive (+) charge. This causes the diaphragm to physically move forward and back at an extremely rapid pace, which in turn moves air. When we move air we create? Sound! See below.
Every MartinLogan electrostatic loudspeaker is hand built. From applying the proprietary insulation surface to the stator, to stretching the diaphragm and sandwiching it between the stators… old world craftsmanship meets new technology. It’s no wonder the “Stat Panel Room”, as it is affectionately called, is the most memorable experience folks have on their trip to our facilities...
So the electrostatic speaker behavior is like a big capacitor. It is not resistive as the ribbon made or flat panels like Maggies, and are not as dynamic speakers that are coils (inductive). The capacitors have a property to have charge and save it. The capacitor charges itself. This is why even being uplug from the mains AC, their charge starts to produce that sound, until there is no charge at all. If you can listen something, it is due to the voltage applied by the amp (very little voltage). Happy listening,
Roberto.
Last edited:
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Questy,
We are all sympathetic when things don't work.
Please spare us the drama and work with ML and your dealer.
I trust, assuming the issue is with the speakers, that the issue will be resolved.
GG
We are all sympathetic when things don't work.
Please spare us the drama and work with ML and your dealer.
I trust, assuming the issue is with the speakers, that the issue will be resolved.
GG
Last edited:
Drama??????? The issue I have is being taken care of!! I was just asking why this particular model will still play even when not plugged in!! My Quests never did that so Gordon if you are not interested in my question then please refrain comment that does not concern you!
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
FYI, this is an open forum and one can certainly express one's opinion.
You certainly came across initially as the proverbial whiner. Hence the reason for my comment.
I'm glad your issue is resolved.
Chill.
You certainly came across initially as the proverbial whiner. Hence the reason for my comment.
I'm glad your issue is resolved.
Chill.
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churchill
Well-known member
My CLS IIz will play an hour or longer after unplugging....
Thank you churchill. I guess these are different then the older generation Quests that I had.
Today the speaker in question will be fixed as it seems to be a cold solder that cuts off the signal to the panel. Could of been caused by transport I suppose. If the problem is not easily fixable, then the speakers will be changed. My dealer is not going to attempt for hours to find the problem since they are new and if they can't find it.........they go back.
Had a chance to listen at a higher volume last night where the problem seems to stabilize and they are truly a great speaker. Hard to believe that at that price they really shine.
Today the speaker in question will be fixed as it seems to be a cold solder that cuts off the signal to the panel. Could of been caused by transport I suppose. If the problem is not easily fixable, then the speakers will be changed. My dealer is not going to attempt for hours to find the problem since they are new and if they can't find it.........they go back.
Had a chance to listen at a higher volume last night where the problem seems to stabilize and they are truly a great speaker. Hard to believe that at that price they really shine.
Ok..........After testing and checking, new speakers will be ordered Monday. Can't find the problem after 2 hours so they said screw that!
Had a chance to see inside though and very well built!!! The crossover on them is very sophisticated and my dealer was very impressed with the workmanship! He still thinks it's a cold solder somewhere but since they are brand spanking new, no time to waste tearing them all apart. Great service.
Had a chance to see inside though and very well built!!! The crossover on them is very sophisticated and my dealer was very impressed with the workmanship! He still thinks it's a cold solder somewhere but since they are brand spanking new, no time to waste tearing them all apart. Great service.
njpozner
Member
Questy, it looks like you got your situation resolved. I just got my EM-ESLs on Thursday, and the same thing has happened to me. Did your dealer replace the speakers as a pair, or just replace the one that was defective?
Peter Soderberg
Well-known member
on the matching of serial numbers. We do QC on individual parts, sub assemblies, final product against a reference. As a result, unit to unit variance is extremely small. Since the EM are not a wood grained product, there is little reason to have to have them as sequenced pairs. The biggest reason for the need to serial number match the bigger ones is so the woodgrain is matched since it will come from the same sheet of veneers.
beek
Well-known member
Maybe it happened in transit
njpozner
Member
Just to follow up, I took the defective one back to Magnolia, where it was exchanged with a new unit. I took it back home and am returned to audio bliss!
beek
Well-known member
Excellent I also had great service on my Vitstas
ML & dealers are fantastic
ML & dealers are fantastic
churchill
Well-known member
Good to hear it was resolved quickly!
gabbleratchet
New member
I heard the EM-ESLs for the first time at a local shop yesterday. Very impressive overall, but this thread caught my attention because the pair I heard, driven by a Cambridge Audio 60W integrated amp, had occasional crackling/popping in the right channel. Originally thought it was the vinyl source material, but we switched to SACD and experienced the same.
This curiosity is probably the only thing holding me back from buying these speakers at the moment.
roberto
Well-known member
Hola. Usually the cracking, popping when listening to music, is coming from the source (amplifier, preamp etc) and not from the speaker. The best way to try it, is swaping left to right. If the cracking is at the same speaker, you found the problem. Happy listening...
