NAS Media Storage/Server

[kcl]

Kruppy and KCL,
I don't know if this would be what you are looking for, but I saw (this 3TB ReadyNAS) on newegg ... $1,929.88 ...

Checking at the Infrant Forum, I verified that 2TB is the RAID 5 limit for the current 'Raidiator 3' (sic) firmware. Note that a fourth beta of the next version was just released on 10/5/07 which breaks the 2TB limit.

With that said, the system that captain_tinker's link references is 4x750GB drives, which seems like 3TB but really isn't. A RAID-5 system uses one disk's-worth of storage for error correction, so that's actually only 3x750GB, or 2.25TB (2250GB). However, on the forum I found out its not even that. A 750GB drive has in reality a little over 680GB of usable storage, which gives this configuration about 2.05TB (2050GB) of 'real' storage. So, there's only 50GB or so 'waste', which IMHO isn't worth worrying about.

 

[kcl]

Kruppy -- My recommendation would still be to get a ReadyNAS NV+ 'Diskless' version and the drives separately. This is the cheapest way to go, and the its really simple to install and set up the system.

For example, searching google for "readynas nv+ diskless" I found the 250MB memory NV+ (the one I've got) for $719 at aegis.com, and via pricewatch.com found 250GB drives for $54. This gives a total of $935, compared to the $1199 that you listed for an equivalent system in your first message.

By the way, again via pricewatch.com, you could get 320GB drives for $64 and 400GB drives for $82, for system totals of $975 and $1047, respectively. The latter is still less than your original price quote, but with 1200GB (1.2TB) vs 750GB of data storage.

Finally, if you go with this route, be sure that you verify that the disks you're purchasing are on Infrant's Hardware Compatibility List.

 

[Kruppy]

Kruppy -- My recommendation would still be to get a ReadyNAS NV+ 'Diskless' version and the drives separately. This is the cheapest way to go, and the its really simple to install and set up the system.

For example, searching google for "readynas nv+ diskless" I found the 250MB memory NV+ (the one I've got) for $719 at aegis.com, and via pricewatch.com found 250GB drives for $54. This gives a total of $935, compared to the $1199 that you listed for an equivalent system in your first message.

By the way, again via pricewatch.com, you could get 320GB drives for $64 and 400GB drives for $82, for system totals of $975 and $1047, respectively. The latter is still less than your original price quote, but with 1200GB (1.2TB) vs 750GB of data storage.

Finally, if you go with this route, be sure that you verify that the disks you're purchasing are on Infrant's Hardware Compatibility List.

Yup, I agree. The diskless version is the less costly way to go. Thanks for posting the hardware compatibility link. I didn't even think about that.

 

[JonFo]

One note of caution regarding cheap hard drives for a RAID5 environment, you get what you pay for.
So if your time and your data are worth anything, you might want to look into using drives that are designed for RAID duties.

They feature specific write timmings and resilence to certain types of drive-level errors to ensure they don't 'break' the RAID.
The Western Digital RE2 line of drives, like this $129 500GB RE2 WD5000ABYS are what I use in RAID setups exclusively.

With 5 year warranties and more extinsive factory testing resulting in ultra-high 1.2 million hours MTBF rating, it's also a safer bet than a generic 'OEM' drive.

No problem on my 400GB RE2 drives after 2 years running off my LSI Raid controller in my home media server which stays on 24/7.

But do ensure to keep adequate airflow over them. Heat is the #1 hard drive killer.

BTW- the 750GB version is now out, and streets around $200. Here's an articel on it: http://techreport.com/articles.x/13253


Bottom line, get good drives, put them in a resilent config and then backup regularly.

 

[Kruppy]

Jonfo, I was wondering when you were going to jump in here. Thanks for the additional comments.

Being that I'm fairly new to this, I would not have thought that there would be RAID specific drives.

Oh, I almost forgot. LSI RAID controller, from my quick search, this appears to be a card required to run the NAS (this is more of a question than a statement). There is quite a difference in pricing, from cheap ~$100 to expensive >$600. What's the difference? What should I be looking for?

Actually thanks to all to posted on this topic. I've actually learned quite a bit over the last couple of days.

 

[JonFo]

Kruppy, the ReadyNAS is a really good solution to your needs, keep looking into that.

I just added the word of caution around HD's as using non-raid compliant drives is a great way to have never ending headaches.

Not that I've read about issues with non-compliant drives in that box, I just feel that the added safety works to your advantage long-term.

The LSI raid cards are for in-the-box raid solutions for your PC. I use a PCI 6 SATA port LSI card that cost about $300. Works like a charm. And since my box is on 24/7, I figured it could be the file server as well.

Even when the wife is playing videos streaming off the RAID array, the use of that machine is as if nothing was happening. Pretty slick.

But again, the ReadyNAS is also very slick and seems to suit your needs.

 

[captain_tinker]

Jonfo has a good point there. A regular PC may be a good way to go, and would undoubtedly be a LOT cheaper. That of course is going to depend on what you have and what you require, and how much space you have. Do you absolutely HAVE to do a ready built NAS, or can you build yourself a small computer with enough disks in it to do the job. That right there is going to be the most flexible solution, though not always the cleanest. You will not likely have to worry about an upper limit of space except for the amount of physical space and connectors you have. I am not sure if anything like the X-RAID exists outside of that readynas, but you could check on it. Where do you plan to put this NAS/System? Will it need to be absolutely silent, or take up only a very small amount of space? How experienced are you in linux? Would you like to become more experienced? This is a great learning opportunity...

One other note, in your first post you mentioned the buffalo terastation. I remember the other day at Frys, I saw a 4 Tb version on the shelf for around $1800. I've never used a Terastation, but according to the slimdevices forum, it is possible to run slimserver on it.

http://shop2.outpost.com/{qo2nYkBzkaQvdExpEbrV1A**.node2}/product/5352488;jsessionid=qo2nYkBzkaQvdExpEbrV1A**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG



-capT

 

[kcl]

...How experienced are you in linux? Would you like to become more experienced? This is a great learning opportunity...

Just as a point of information, I'm very experienced in unix/linux, but in the 9+ months I've had the ReadyNAS NV+ haven't needed to enter a single linux command line (either at a shell prompt or in a script).

 

[captain_tinker]

Just as a point of information, I'm very experienced in unix/linux, but in the 9+ months I've had the ReadyNAS NV+ haven't needed to enter a single linux command line (either at a shell prompt or in a script).

KCL,
Right, and you shouldn't have to if this is a NAS. Most of them are built with some kind of a remote interface that does all that for you. I was referring to building a linux machine to use as a NAS instead of buying one ready made. Probably a lot cheaper, but that depends, it may not be as user friendly that way unless you really know what you are doing. If that is the case, yeah a NAS would certainly be what you want instead.

-capT

 

[kcl]

I absolutely agree with captain_tinker that a 'home grown' system will always be less expensive (often significantly less). For those that are reading this other than him (I'm certain this isn't news to him), there's usually FAR more involved in the effective cost of a server than just 'building' it.

Just as background, I've been involved in computers since before 1970 (gads, that sounds old ), have built many of my own systems over the years, and this includes my own tarabyte server back in 2005. I initially spent quite some time figuring out what I wanted to put together, with many decisions regarding it. These included but were not limited to:

• What case to use (size, # of slots, how quiet, how cooled, which motherboard, and so forth).
• What power supply to use (how powerful, how quiet, how cool).
• The motherboard, CPU, and amount of memory (servers can have quite different requirements).
• Size, control and type of system disks (used RAID 1 card with 2 60GB, 7200 rpm drives).
• Size, control and type of data disks (used RAID 5 card with 8 160GB, 5400 rpm drives, for 1TB+).
• Which OS to use (tried Windows Server 2003, linux, but ended up with just XP Pro).
• Where to buy (used the internet and ebay).
• How to reconfigure my home network (ended up making it gigabit internally).
• How to add/modify the software on my home theater PC to be able play audio and video off of the server.
• What software to install on the server that my HTPC could access.
• And, and, ...

You get the idea. It took me a month or two decide on and purchase all of the equipment (cost me about $1k, which was really good for 2005). After that, it took me another month or so to put the system together, evaluate the results, try various OS configurations, and finally decide on a final form. I started the system and left it on 24/7 for the next year or so.

So you can see from all of this that the equipment purchase can be just a small part of an overall server project (and I didn't even get into the time and effort required for software/hardware maintenance, problems and upgrades). You combine all this with today's 'turnkey' net-enabled audio and video software and hardware (SlimServer, SqueezeBox, Ziova, etc.), and it makes sense now to just go with a 'boxed' solution. That's why I decided to replace my home-grown server with the ReadyNAS NV+ back in February, and I couldn't be happier with the decision.

 

[Kruppy]

I think building my own server is not the direction that I want to go. Not really having much experience with this stuff, plug and play is more my style at this time. My wife is the computer nerd in the family, but even she's lost some of her desire to mess with them since she became a stay at home mom.

Not that I don't think I'm not capable of doing it. By the time I research what needs to be done, buy the hardware, assembly and then trouble shoot, I think I might better off spending a bit more money and saving time and grief.

Thanks for posting your thoughts, guys. This has really pointed me in the right direction.

 

[rs2]

Kruppy,

I am new here but have been lurking for some time now.

I have an Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ running Slimserver. It was extremely easy to set up and has been working perfectly for 6+ months now. Although I have Windows/Unix/Xenix/Linux knowledge non was needed during setup/installation. It is an expensive solution but well worth the extra $$$.

I have it hooked up to my SB3/CIAudio DAC/Supply setup and it sounds fantastic! One of my primary requirements was not to have to run my PC all of the time. The Ready NAS is extremely quiet, small and requires very little power.

 

[captain_tinker]

I think building my own server is not the direction that I want to go.

Fair enough. After reading KCL's post, I can certainly see why. It can certainly be a very long drawn out process to build something on your own. It all comes down to a few things, ease of use, cost, time involved, and how long till it's done so you can use it!

For me, the whole rigamarole of researching, planning, buying, trying, putting together, testing, tinkering and tweaking, etc is all part of the fun for me. And even though the end result is certainly always the goal, the journey to get there is very satisfying for me. How do you think I earned my moniker?

I understand that not everyone feels this way. That's fine. Some people just aren't into that, and the end result is all they want. So in cases like that it makes sense to spend the extra cash and get something already built specifically for the task.

In that case, more power to you. I wish you all the best!

-capT

 

[Kruppy]

For me, the whole rigamarole of researching, planning, buying, trying, putting together, testing, tinkering and tweaking, etc is all part of the fun for me. And even though the end result is certainly always the goal, the journey to get there is very satisfying for me. How do you think I earned my moniker?

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you here. My problem here is that my knowledge base is very limited in this area and I think by the time I educate myself, I'll have invested way too much of my precious little free time.

 

[Kruppy]

Kruppy,

I am new here but have been lurking for some time now.

I have an Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ running Slimserver. It was extremely easy to set up and has been working perfectly for 6+ months now. Although I have Windows/Unix/Xenix/Linux knowledge non was needed during setup/installation. It is an expensive solution but well worth the extra $$$.

I have it hooked up to my SB3/CIAudio DAC/Supply setup and it sounds fantastic! One of my primary requirements was not to have to run my PC all of the time. The Ready NAS is extremely quiet, small and requires very little power.

This is the type of feedback I like to hear. I just need to start saving some cash.

Btw, Welcome to the club.

 

[kcl]

For me, the whole rigamarole of researching, planning, buying, trying, putting together, testing, tinkering and tweaking, etc is all part of the fun for me. And even though the end result is certainly always the goal, the journey to get there is very satisfying for me. How do you think I earned my moniker?

I can certainly understand that, and can even agree with it! But the thing is, I'm 60 now, and I've been doing this stuff for close to 40 years. It just doesn't hold that much attraction for me anymore. Maybe its because I've done this sort of thing so many times before. Maybe my interests have wandered a bit over the years. Heck, who am I kidding, maybe I'm just getting too old! Whatever the reason, its so much more convenient and easier to just get the packaged solution now. (Don't mind me, I'll shuffle over to the side of the room now. Kids nowadays. Why, in my day... Snort. Grumble.)

 

[rs2]

Kruppy: Thanks for the welcome!

kcl: I totally agree with you here ! I have been doing this for 20 years now and the last thing I want to do when I get home is mess with building/configuring a computer. Once the NAS is set up (which is VERY easy) you can forget about it and use it to listen to music!

 

[captain_tinker]

I have an Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ running Slimserver. It was extremely easy to set up and has been working perfectly for 6+ months now. Although I have Windows/Unix/Xenix/Linux knowledge non was needed during setup/installation. It is an expensive solution but well worth the extra $$$.

I have it hooked up to my SB3/CIAudio DAC/Supply setup and it sounds fantastic! One of my primary requirements was not to have to run my PC all of the time. The Ready NAS is extremely quiet, small and requires very little power.

Even though I enjoy putting together a machine, there really is something to be said for the simplicity of something already put together for a specific purpose.

My question to you rs2 is where do you put your NAS? Is it part of the home theater, or is it stuck somewhere where you don't have to see it, hear it, or even know it is there? In my house, the only way I could set up an SB3 to use the nas would either be wirelessly or by stretching a 50 foot cable under the carpet by the edge of the wall all the way back to my computer desk at the back of the room where my router is. I have heard that the Squeezebox isn't always up the task of playing FLAC etc wirelessly, even over wireless G... I've tested it with SoftSqueeze on my laptop over wireless and it cuts out every few seconds while playing FLAC, but not with MP3. I don't know if the hardware version works the same way or not, perhaps...

Actually, maybe I could hook the SB3 directly to a NAS, and use the SB3 as a wireless bridge, and access the nas remotely via wireless? I don't like the idea of using a slower wireless connection to the NAS though.

Another reason I am thinking of doing a computer instead of a NAS is because I want to set up an HTPC. I could build it to do HTPC, DVR, home web server, and NAS duties all in one little box. I don't know if this is practical, but it sounds intriguing...

I have been looking into some mini-itx mobo's and cases etc... but I guess this may actually be better as a separate thread. I may do that.

-capT

 

[rs2]

capT,

My NAS is actually in a separate room from my HT using a wireless connection to the SB3. I play exclusively FLAC files and have had absolutely NO issues at all running it this way. It has never dropped out or locked up while playing music. I'm not sure if there would be any sonic difference if it was hooked up directly or not. I should probably experiment with this.

I think your idea of using the SB3 as a wireless bridge would work just fine. I also transfer files to my NAS wirelessly and have not had any issues there either other than slower file transfers.

As far as flexibility is concerned you would be far better off going with a PC. I am using my NAS strictly for FLAC files but if I was going to do any video etc. I would probably go with a PC myself. Check out the link below when you get a chance. This looks like it might be promising for a nice balance between a PC and a NAS. I think it is due out before the end of the year.

Windows Home Server

 

[captain_tinker]

RS2,
As for the flac working well, that's good to hear. Maybe I will not worry so much about it then. As for that Home Server, wow! What a great idea! I can't wait to see how that pans out!

-capT