Moving from Stax Omega II to ML

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bahamaman

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I've spent the last few weeks lurking and finally built up the courage to make my first post.

When our son was born nearly five years ago, I was pretty much forced to give up my speaker-based rig. That led me to www.head-fi.org, where I experimented with virtually every flavor of headphone. Finally, I reached pretty close to the zenith of headphones (imo) - the Stax Omega II, and paired with a valve amp made for me by Singlepower Audio. If you're curious, pics can be found at:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183581&highlight=es-1

Well, we are now in the initial throws of taking one of the rooms in our house and making it a media room. And, given my love of Stax, it seemed logical to move to MLs. This weekend just confirmed that choice, having auditioned some Clarities. I fell in love.

I need your help in putting together my new system. I want to try to hit that audio sweet spot, to make choices that are sound, that represent good value, yet choices that don't cause me to start researching upgrades a few weeks later.

The ultimate goal is a home theater, but I lack the cash to do it right away (or, more properly, I don't have the cash to do it right). So, I want to start by building a *strong* 2 channel system that has the capacity, over time, to be a 5.1 system (at least). The only pieces of the puzzle that are already in place are a 57" DLP and a source for redbook CDs (Accustic Arts CDP). So, initially, I need some floor standing MLs, an amp and pre/pro (having decided to go with separates if at all possible).

The room is approx 18 x 15 feet. Probably the only option for the tv and speakers is against one of the two 18 foot walls. That wouldn't be a bad choice necessarily, but for the fact that there is a door at either end of that wall (one leading in from the living room, the other into a bathroom). That leaves 90" (7.5') with which to work. The television takes up 51". So the floorstanders would be placed slightly in front of and to either side of the widescreen. I think it's wide enough to accommodate all three pieces.

My budget for the first components (amp, pre/pro and MLs) could be as high as $6500.

First off, I would love to hear some arguments in favoring of upgrading to the Vistas.

Also, I am presently looking at the Reference Series combination from Emotivo (http://www.emotiva.com/products.html) . The amp has 150W x 7. I do wonder if 150 watts will do the MLs justice.

Alternatively, I am considering buying the Outlaw pre/pro 990 and (at least initially) two of the 200W 2200 model and then adding 2200s as my home theater develops.

Final alternative is to get some mono blocks for the two channel and add something amps later as I move toward multichannel. But, I really have no idea what represents good value in the monoblock realm.

Any suggestions? Newbie mistakes? Many thanks in advance for your help.
 
First of all.... sorry about your wallet, again. I am part of headfi and had a rig that consisted of the Sennheiser HD650 and the HeadAmp GS-1 amp.... but I sold it all when I decided that MLs were a bigger bang for the buck.

And another thing, those pics seem to be of Adrian's (akwok) rig.... unless you're adrian. I didnt bother to scroll down to see if your rig was there, it probably is. Anyway...

So, the Vista would be a good start. Are you going purely 2ch at the moment? Do you need a subwoofer? That room is pretty good-sized and you could/might need a sub to augment the lower infrasonics. A depth should be fine though.

Vistas are real good and probably one of the bargains of audio at the moment.

Welcome to our loony club!! :D

Joey
:welcome:
 
First of all.... sorry about your wallet, again. I am part of headfi and had a rig that consisted of the Sennheiser HD650 and the HeadAmp GS-1 amp.... but I sold it all when I decided that MLs were a bigger bang for the buck.

And another thing, those pics seem to be of Adrian's (akwok) rig.... unless you're adrian. I didnt bother to scroll down to see if your rig was there, it probably is. Anyway...

So, the Vista would be a good start. Are you going purely 2ch at the moment? Do you need a subwoofer? That room is pretty good-sized and you could/might need a sub to augment the lower infrasonics. A depth should be fine though.

Vistas are real good and probably one of the bargains of audio at the moment.

Welcome to our loony club!! :D

Joey
:welcome:

Thanks for the welcome, Joey. Yes, those are Adrian's pics I "stole" but my rig is the same as his. So, you think the Vistas are really worth the step up. Any amp, pre/pro suggestions?
 
Thanks for the welcome, Joey. Yes, those are Adrian's pics I "stole" but my rig is the same as his. So, you think the Vistas are really worth the step up. Any amp, pre/pro suggestions?

I would look at the outlaw stuff...seems to be very affordable and of good quality. 150W should be more than enough to power any ML speaker really. Especially if it is in the form of a seperate amp vs. a receiver.

If you are in the Austin area I can make you a good deal on my Pioneer Elite VSX-49TX which I was using for my HT/2ch work up till last fall when I upgraded all gear to Rotel stuff. It is a GREAT reciever...one of the best Pioneer ever made. $1050 picked up...I just can't ship the thing, it is HUGE, heavy and I don't have the original box (I keep thinking I am going to come across it but have not yet...)

This is what I did...and it worked GREAT for me. I got the BIG TV first (you have that), I got the Pioneer Elite PRO-510 and LOVE IT. Then I got the Elite receiver and the Ascent and Cinema ML's and LOVED THEM! Just used some cheap speakers for surround. Then I left those as the rear surrounds and added ML Aerius i as the rear L/R speakers (AWESOME for the money!), then I stepped up to Prodigy for front. Then I built a new house and moved up to ML Script for the rear surrond, put the Ascent as the rear L/R and upgraded to a Theater moved the Aerius to zone 2 duty. Just recently I sold the Aerius i and Cinema locally here in Austin... That money is going to a new TV a Sony 70"...

So, you have to decided how you want to play the game and what will work for you. I prefered to have Home Theater set up first as I knew everyone would enjoy that MOST... The VSX-49TX CAN be used as a Preamp, so with that you can still expand to as many external amps as you like or mix and match between reciever powering the rears and monoblocks on the front L/R/C....whatever.

Best of luck and let me know if you have any other ??? I can help with.
 
Pcar928fan - I, too, am a huge fan of the Pioneer Elite gear (I've got a nearly 3.5 year old Plasma in a system driven by an Elite receiver - the 43TX). That system will be moving to the master bedroom.

For better or worse, I really do want to try separates with the MLs and build outward from the very best 2 channel system my budget can handle.

Thanks for your very kind offer!
 
Welcome to the group, I like your idea of building a good two channel system and then expanding from there, wise move !! With that being said I would alocate what ever you have leftover from the Clarity purchase and put it towards a pre-amp with processor out( this is for whatever you decide to use down the road with your HT set-up), and an amp of your choosing.

Myself, Joey, Dan, Tim and quite a few others are fond of tube pre's matched up to SS amps. Check out the various system configurations and feel free to come back with more questions, we love to help you spend your money !!!

Keep us posted with the progress !
 
Here is my idea, you want seperates and nice logans right? Go with the best logans you can afford new and buy some used seperates. You can buy a used Acurus Act3 5.1 processor for around $300, it was I think around $1500 new. Then find yourself a 5 channel acurus amp which will run you around $500. Your total on that combo would be $800 give you enough power to do what you want and be able to spend more on the speakers now. If your budget is around $6500 you could go past the Vista's and get a set of Vantages. Grab yourself an Oppo dvd player for less than $200 and take the rest of your money and buy what center and rears you can get away with, maybe some used mirage or energy speakers, set it all up and call it a day.

That way you have GREAT Logans and when you want to upgrade your electronics you should be able to get back every penny you put into them.
 
Here is my idea, you want seperates and nice logans right? Go with the best logans you can afford new and buy some used seperates. You can buy a used Acurus Act3 5.1 processor for around $300, it was I think around $1500 new. Then find yourself a 5 channel acurus amp which will run you around $500. Your total on that combo would be $800 give you enough power to do what you want and be able to spend more on the speakers now. If your budget is around $6500 you could go past the Vista's and get a set of Vantages. Grab yourself an Oppo dvd player for less than $200 and take the rest of your money and buy what center and rears you can get away with, maybe some used mirage or energy speakers, set it all up and call it a day.

That way you have GREAT Logans and when you want to upgrade your electronics you should be able to get back every penny you put into them.

That is excellent advice, and it is much appreciated. Also, to twich54, I am already looking into what you advised about a tubed pre-amp.

Clearly, I've got to go an audition the Vistas and Vantages to be able to know in which direction I'm going.

Thanks for all your help thus far, and please feel free to chime in if you have any further thoughts!
 
If you are looking for a tube preamp look at some of the Conrad Johnson stuff. You can buy a pv-10 for around $500 and they sound great, if you want a remote things may start to get pricey. There is a BAT vk-3 on audiogon.com for $750, but no remote, the VK-3i with remote with run around $1200, give or take a few bucks.
 
I own the Clarity's and the Vista's are better but actually IMO not that much better. Decide if the money can be better spent upstream. The Vantages are a whole other ball game. They are markedly better than the Clarity's and the Vista's. You may be able to get a decent price on the Clarity's. My $.02!
 
Pcar928fan - I, too, am a huge fan of the Pioneer Elite gear (I've got a nearly 3.5 year old Plasma in a system driven by an Elite receiver - the 43TX). That system will be moving to the master bedroom.

For better or worse, I really do want to try separates with the MLs and build outward from the very best 2 channel system my budget can handle.

Thanks for your very kind offer!

Good to see another Elite man on the boards. You will like the upgrade to separates though! As good as the VSX 49TX is my Rotel gear is better! You can do better than Rotel too, but it will probably cost you more money. The Outlaw gear is cheaper, but not sure how it sounds w/ ML's...

All the best...where do you live in TX? Big state, you could be 12 hours from me and still be in TEXAS, and I live in the middle of the STATE! LOL!
 
I am currently running Outlaw seperates w/ Claritys and have been very pleased with them. On some music, I found the bass to be a bit lacking, which I solved by adding a REL Strata III sub. I could not find a cheap center that I thought matched well with the ESL's, so I did a phantom center for a couple years, until recently buying a Cinema. Still using cheap surrounds and debating whether to upgrade those any time soon. If you go the used route, you should be able to get this combo within your budget.

If I were in your position right now, I'd probably keep everything the same, except push the budget a bit to try to find a deal on gently used Vantages. From what I've read, they are a pretty big jump up. Although, I would definately arrange an audition first!

Two other changes I've made that I thought made a big difference:

I replaced my large tube TV between the speakers with a flat panel on the wall. That really openned up the sound between the speakers. With the next house (only 2 months to go!), I will get rid of the glass and go with a front projection screen.

I also traded my Rotel 1092 CDP for a dedicated DAC (Benchmark DAC1). I figure this approach gives me lots of flexibility on sources (planning to go with Squeezebox, Sonos, or something similar in the new house) while maintaining a high quality source signal.

My $0.02...hope this helps.
 
pcar928fan - I'm up I-35 in Ft. Worth.

steve and lugano - Thanks for your input. As soon as I can find the time, it's off to audition the Vantages.
 
Bahamaman,

I'm in a similar boat as you! I've spent the past two months weighing the various options in my mind and every time I think I've decided on a setup, I find myself reconsidering the choice the next day. :(

I think that I'm in a little better situation than you, though, since I already have a servicable subwoofer. I wouldn't consider either the Clarity or the Vista without a sub--I just don't think that they put out enough bass. The Vantage, on the other hand, I could see myself living with for quite a while without a sub.

So, I would recommend stepping up to the Vantages if at all possible.

As for powering them, I looked pretty seriously at the Outlaw gear, but the lack of HDMI was a deal killer for me. If you can live without that, then I think that they are a fine choice. You might also want to look at the NAD stuff--http://www.spearitsound.com/nad/nadspec.htm has some great deals on refurb NAD.

If HDMI does matter to you, you're in a much trickier situation--there are very few seperates with HDMI, at the moment. One option would be to get something like the Marantz SR8001. It's a receiver and not seperates, but at least it has a toroidal power transformer, so it should be able to power whatever speakers you pick.

Another option (and the one that I'm currently considering) would be to get a 2 channel integrated amp or pre-amp which has a home theater pass through (like the Cambridge 840A). It would give you great 2 channel sound now and should be easy to integrate into a surround sound setup as your system develops.
 
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