more rights for terrorists

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Kenscollick

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You Have the Right?

One day after the very first detainee from Guantanamo Bay was transferred to New York City to stand trial, we are now learning some news thanks to The Weekly Standard.

According to Congressman Mike Rogers — who serves on the House Intelligence Committee — the Obama administration is now requiring FBI agents to read Miranda rights to captured terrorists.

Help me with this one, Before we can question them we have to tell them they "have the right to remain silent"
 
We've had these guys imprisoned and questioned and tortured under nebulous status for eight years. I'm all for moving them through the justice system at this point. Let's see if we can formulate a case against them.

Clay
 
Why don't we dispense with the misleading labels and call these people what they really are: prisoners of war. Then we should deal with them according to the Geneva Conventions. The problem is the Bush administration went too far in trying to keep these detainees from enjoying their rights under the Geneva Conventions, by classifying them as "enemy combatants", and now the current administration is going to the opposite extreme in order to try to rebuild our tattered global reputation.

There is no such thing as "Unlawful Enemy combatant." Either they are criminals in another country and should be dealt with according to that country's laws, or they are prisoners of war and should be treated as such.
 
If they are considered POW's then what/who do they belong to and who represents them? Which nation, state, country or government should we be holding talks with regarding their status? Which military organization are they affiliated with? Is there a Red Cross equivalent? etc...

The Geneva Conventions was a positive humanitarian step to address humane treatment of POWs. Does the Geneva Convention adequately address the modern phenomenon of terrorism which wasn't prevalent during and post WWI and WWII ? Perhaps it should be amended or updated to include modern issues of today's world such as "Unlawful Combatants".
 
is this country ever going to get some decent borders????
 
is this country ever going to get some decent borders????


I love our borders !!

Coolest ride ever was in Maine (pre 911) when riding south out of Madawaska you come to the little town of Hamlin, from there the snowmobile trail was actually the border between Maine and New Brunswick (tangent for almost 70 miles!). When heading south you were in the US and if heading north you were in Canada, with the traditional little concrete markers every quarter mile !

Now that was cool !!
 
yeah, i live 10 minutes from "zero avenue" and when you drive along you get a little monument every so often reminding you of the ditch errr border that you are beside.

much of the area is farmland, with Americows on one side and Cownadians on the other :)
 
If they are considered POW's then what/who do they belong to and who represents them? Which nation, state, country or government should we be holding talks with regarding their status? Which military organization are they affiliated with? Is there a Red Cross equivalent? etc...

They are either criminals in whatever country we caught them in (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, etc.) or they are prisoners of war. I don't see much gray area there. War is war whether your enemy is another Country or an independent group. As for their status, I guess we should be talking to their country of origin/citizenship, which may be different for each of them.

Does the Geneva Convention adequately address the modern phenomenon of terrorism which wasn't prevalent during and post WWI and WWII ? Perhaps it should be amended or updated to include modern issues of today's world such as "Unlawful Combatants".

Terrorism is not really a modern invention, nor is religious-based warfare. The Geneva Conventions form the basis of modern-day humanitarian law and should be followed by us regardless of whether our enemy is a another Country or a loose federation of religious warriors. Ultimately, I think they should be tried for a crime in the country we took them from or returned to their country of origin/citizenship.
 
Interesting responses... I just wonder how the thread goes if it started on 9/12..... One thing the last Bush said re: 9/11 that I do remember...he said something to the effect of 'The general public will forget. I'll never forget.' And, as much as some people hate this guy and may or may not agree with his approaches on things... I do admire that statement.
 
Interesting responses... I just wonder how the thread goes if it started on 9/12..... One thing the last Bush said re: 9/11 that I do remember...he said something to the effect of 'The general public will forget. I'll never forget.' And, as much as some people hate this guy and may or may not agree with his approaches on things... I do admire that statement.

Ditto, people have short memories!
 
One day after the very first detainee from Guantanamo Bay was transferred to New York City to stand trial, we are now learning some news thanks to The Weekly Standard.

It'll be very interesting to see what happens when the first acquittal is handed down and a former "unlawful combatant" is released onto American streets. It'll most likely be hailed as a triumph of our legal system. :ROFL:
 
Why don't we dispense with the misleading labels and call these people what they really are: prisoners of war. Then we should deal with them according to the Geneva Conventions.

Rich, unfortunately Article 4 Paragraph 2 of the Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of prisoners of war doesn't provide for them in the way you describe.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:12IyaKqgqmwJ:www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm+geneva+convention+%22Article+4%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Article 4 deals with eligibility under the Geneva Convention. It states in relevant part:

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfill the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

All four conditions must be met. Now if you want to make an argument that we should afford them said protection even though they don't qualify, OK, but as it stands, no such protection is automatically granted.
 
One thing the last Bush said re: 9/11 that I do remember...he said something to the effect of 'The general public will forget. I'll never forget.' And, as much as some people hate this guy and may or may not agree with his approaches on things... I do admire that statement.

Maybe I don't "get it" -- but this seems to me like yet another in an almost continuous stream of nonsensical statements by the ex-(thankfully) prez.

I cannot imagine any member of "The general public" who has forgotten 9/11. :rolleyes:

What an idiot...
 
I would like to retire in Bermuda

A quote from the article that Ken cites:

All of the Uighurs were captured in Pakistan and Afghanistan as suspected allies of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. But the men claimed they had only fled oppression by China and were never enemies of the U.S.

'We only have one enemy, and that's the Chinese,' one of the men, Ablikim Turahun, told a military tribunal in 2004.

'They have been torturing us and killing us all: old, young, men, women, little children and unborn children.'

U.S. officials eventually declared the Uighurs innocent of any wrongdoing and authorized their release, but they couldn't be sent back to China because U.S. law forbids deporting someone to a country where they are likely to face torture or persecution.

So basically, we imprisoned them and tortured them for nothing, but we can't send them back to China because our law forbids us from deporting someone to a country where they might be imprisoned and tortured. Too funny! But not. Not at all. These are human beings. Not animals.

But for some reason, Kenscollic seems to think it is an outrage that they were released to Bermuda, who was willing to take them.

Ken, please explain your position on this. You have a bad habit of posting inflammatory statements and posting links to articles without any real explanation of your positions and their underlying rationale. Please explain to us why you are convinced these Uighurs are terrorists and why they should be held captive for the rest of their lives? Or why we should care that they are now living in Bermuda? Please, defend your positions instead of just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks.

Mcmd: to answer your question, I believe that a valid legal argument can be made that they do fit within the parameters of the Geneva Conventions, and I also believe that we should act according to those Conventions on the battlefield even against an opponent that is not a signatory to the Conventions. I think our reputation in the international community demands that we do so. Especially when we are the ones invading another nation.

Len: I agree with your statement. As a nation, we haven't forgotten Pearl Harbor, and and on the scale of things, it was a much smaller disaster than 9/11. Just another ridiculous self-gratifying statement from Bush jr.
 
Maybe I don't "get it" -- but this seems to me like yet another in an almost continuous stream of nonsensical statements by the ex-(thankfully) prez.

I cannot imagine any member of "The general public" who has forgotten 9/11. :rolleyes:

What an idiot...

How did I know that would bring out the Bush haters? I think you take the statement too literally Len... it is about people moving on, getting on with their lives... the general public is allowed that luxury. His point was - the president is not allowed that luxury. This ties in with the entire thread if you think about it.... Why do we still have prisoners/combatants/victims still locked up? I think your ex-president's statement about 'never forgetting' might have something to do with that... Now, this thread, which I believe is the general public represents people 'moving on'... Hope that clarifys things for you..thanks tim.
 
Rich, I always considered a bad habit to be something like Smoking, Overeating, or some other type of obsessive disorder like bashing past presidents at every turn.

We did not “Imprison them and torture them for nothing”

These guys were not just standing on a street corner in Afghanistan when our military scooped them up just for looking like a terrorist, they were captured on a battlefield armed and trying to kill the people that are trying to protect us.

When these terrorists were interviewed at their USA taxpayer funded home they said that they would like to learn to: Drive, Scuba Dive, and Bowl. No mention of a job, where is that money coming from?


Another 13 Uighurs from Guantanamo are being sent to another tiny island, Palau, in the Pacific. Its president, Johnson Toribiong, declared that accepting them was a "humanitarian gesture", although Washington is also reported to be giving his government $200m worth of aid.

My position is that I am not in favor of treating animals like human beings. I think our country has a lot of bad laws here is a good example. Why shouldn’t we be able to send them back to their home country, it is the one that they left to join in the Jihad against us?

My position on our “reputation in the international community” is that these Islamist extremists will never be at peace with freedom and liberty. Nor will they ever like us so they better fear us; it is the only thing they understand.

I rarely “throw crap” nor do I seek to inflame with ridiculous statements. My posting was to show the insanity of going beyond any Geneva Convention rights “that these guys are not entitled to” by requiring FBI agents capturing terrorists on the battlefields Miranda rights.
 
Maybe I don't "get it" -- but this seems to me like yet another in an almost continuous stream of nonsensical statements by the ex-(thankfully) prez.

I cannot imagine any member of "The general public" who has forgotten 9/11. :rolleyes:

What an idiot...

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion but to call any Ex President an idiot on an open forum is in poor taste and uncalled for.

I am not sure how you can call any person who has risen to the highest office in the land an idiot, you may disagree with the politics or policies but at least show some respect for the office.

that is the problem in our country people are so partisan that we forget we are all Americans. I support our country and our President whoever it is.

Its a shame that people never offer anything constructive just destructive rhetoric and lets assign blame.

just my 2 cents
 
These guys were not just standing on a street corner in Afghanistan when our military scooped them up just for looking like a terrorist, they were captured on a battlefield armed and trying to kill the people that are trying to protect us.

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? Because the article that you cited states just the opposite. To quote again from your article:

All of the Uighurs were captured in Pakistan and Afghanistan as suspected allies of the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

. . .

U.S. officials eventually declared the Uighurs innocent of any wrongdoing and authorized their release . . .

What part of "declared them innocent of any wrongdoing" supports your argument that they "were not just standing on a street corner in Afghanistan when our military scooped them up just for looking like a terrorist . . ."?

These men were found to be innocent of terrorism against America and were approved for release by the military as early as 2003, but they are only just now being released! For an informative background on these particular individuals, here is a good article from the Washington Post (from 2005!):

Chinese Detainees Are Men Without a Country

From the first paragraph of that article:

In late 2003, the Pentagon quietly decided that 15 Chinese Muslims detained at the military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, could be released. Five were people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, some of them picked up by Pakistani bounty hunters for U.S. payoffs. The other 10 were deemed low-risk detainees whose enemy was China's communist government -- not the United States, according to senior U.S. officials.

More than 20 months later, the 15 still languish at Guantanamo Bay, imprisoned and sometimes shackled, with most of their families unaware whether they are even alive.

When these terrorists were interviewed at their USA taxpayer funded home they said that they would like to learn to: Drive, Scuba Dive, and Bowl. No mention of a job, where is that money coming from?

Again, they were found by our military tribunals to actually NOT be terrorists. So the fundamental argument by which you want us to hate them is unfounded. These men were innocent victims, not terrorists. If you want to continue to use that argument, then please provide some authority for it, other than the vague: "well we captured them on the battlefield trying to kill our soldiers." Because both the article you cited and the article I cited state otherwise.

Please let your anger go for a moment and consider if these men were indeed innocent bystanders, as the military tribunals found them to be. Then we have imprisoned them and probably tortured them and then continued to imprison them for no reason for six years AFTER we determined that they were innocent! Do you not see anything wrong with that picture?

My position on our “reputation in the international community” is that these Islamist extremists will never be at peace with freedom and liberty. Nor will they ever like us so they better fear us; it is the only thing they understand.

You act as if the islamic extremists are the only ones that matter. They are not the only ones watching what we do and how we do it. Your focus is a little too narrow. The implications of our actions go far beyond the simple problem of islamic extremism. The world is a large place and there are a lot of powerful players out there that we must take into account when we act.

I rarely “throw crap” nor do I seek to inflame with ridiculous statements.

You mean like in the Sotomayer thread, where you posted a highly partisan, rhetorical and fairly inaccurate "memorandum to JCN members" and then never took part in the discussion that ensued? I call the kind of post you made in that thread throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks and just seeking to inflame without honestly engaging in discussion. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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