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I think you make a great point here, Justin. Magnepans have a rabid following just like ML so it is obviously a technology that can produce great sound. ML uses AMT drivers and conventional cone speakers along with their traditional esl panels. So it wouldn't really be a stretch for them to venture into this area. Interesting thought. Personally, I really like the sound of the big Maggies.

This touches on a broader point I had made earlier in this thread, that there is a great opportunity for ML to use its legacy and its expertise to transition into standing for something much more than just ES sound. ML today clearly is synonymous with the best ES sound. But NOT with the sound that most closely resembles the original source, which is a significantly more desirable positioning and aspiration (ala the "Great Speaker Company Bringing Live Sound to your home"). Ribbons/Planars would be a very natural extension. Many ribbon makers e.g. Bruce Thigpen of Eminent Technology (whose speakers are great but FUGLY :) could be drawn into a research collaboration, or possibly even bought out. I'll bet good things will happen if experienced E-stat scientists collaborate wih experienced ribbon scientists and experienced Paradogm scientists. And many of the best are either struggling or laid off right now. Best time to recruit, and invest.

See below for a very interesting interview with Bruce Thigpen which touches on some of these themes.
http://aventhusiast.com/audio/interviews/av-enthusiast-interview-bruce-thigpen-of-eminent-technology

It is for possibilities such as these that I am so MUCH more optimistic about the potential here than many others, if Shoreview plays its cards right. Experience shows that it is much harder for the original entrepreneurs to move into fundmentally new but good directions. Not impossible (e.g. Apple) but hard (e.g. Motorola, Nokia even, and many many more ...). Responsible new ownership can often be the catalyst for positive change, and new directions such as the above.

Arguably, ML, Magnepan and Wilson might be the only remaining brand names that have the history (and skills) to pull something like the above off.

Frankly, maybe ML should even consider buying Magnepan to develop this new line.

Separately, I would suggest to Justin and the CEO to clean up the brand. It is too damn confusing with Reserve ESL, ESL, Motion, Architectire and ATF. Unlike many here, I think it is essential for ML to move into the Best Buy segment for many of the reasons already stated. But not by diluting the core ML brand. I would suggest that ML should have only three brands/lines:
ML Signature or Reserve: High end ESL and planars, sold through high end dealers
ML: Lower end ESL/planars, ATFs and Motions etc. Sold through other retailers
ML Architect: In walls, and custom installations sold through high end dealers and installers.


ML executives: if you implement any of the above ideas, rememeber where you heard em first ;) Throw us a bone and acknowledge it when you do so and maybe underwrite Tom's expenses to keep this thread alive. I may also consider a CLX or two as a token payment for the valuable ideas above ;)
 
ML executives: if you implement any of the above ideas, rememeber where you heard em first ;) Throw us a bone and acknowledge it when you do so and maybe underwrite Tom's expenses to keep this thread alive. I may also consider a CLX or two as a token payment for the valuable ideas above ;)

Hey, I started it!!! I said recruit Graz... make him a relocation offer he can't refuse.

Mind you, that's not American blood.;) Come to think of it, neither is mine:)

Magnepan merger, though - hm - could be interesting, no?
 
Rich,

I would be even more concerned if the CEO of ML and Paradigm owned a Bose anything for his main setup.:(

Otherwise:

I would like to be able to buy a new state of the art crossover, state of the art woofer and xstat panels for my Quests. Why, because mine sound good and ML hasn't made a new speaker whose aesthetics appeal to me since the Prodigy. AND if I bought a set of Prodigy's, I would still want the same things. Yes I know that the ultimate cost would be high, but if I don't like the looks than it doesn't come in the house.
 
Hey, I started it!!! I said recruit Graz... make him a relocation offer he can't refuse.

Mind you, that's not American blood.;) Come to think of it, neither is mine:)

Magnepan merger, though - hm - could be interesting, no?

if it ain't American, it ain't blood ;)

Magnepan buyout could very well be interesting. Impossible to predict with entrepreneurs which way they will go. But the R&D possibilities would be terrific. Graz or Thigpen would also be very capable alternatives and possibly requiring much less cash or brand confusion than Magnepan. ML doesnt need to pay for a brand and they would be overpaying a little for the Magnepan brand. With Graz or Thigpen, they probably get 95% of the Magnepan skills at 25% of the buyout cost

That said, buying out Magnepan would have the added benefit that we would get a whole new set of Minnesotans and magnepan owners cursing the Canadians when 12 more jobs move 12 miles north from Minnesota to Canada :)
 
I thank you for thinking they should support their legacy models.But the term high end is very subjective.Your definition on high end in Tonepubs defense could be considered snobbish.If you have ever heard the CLS or Monolith line,the soundstage is much larger than the smaller,new versions of Logans.I am one of those that prefer the sound of the older Logans as are many others.There are advantages no matter how much technology can overcome a larger panel.Was that not the main reason of building the CLX in the first place.It does not matter to me what a reviewer thinks is the greatest thing since sliced bread.I go by my own ears and what I prefer.Would you consider
CAP or Jonfo's system of not being high end,because they own legacy models? I for one think they are and hopefully they would agree.

Well let's see if we take into factor that everything is "RELATIVE" I would say absolutely no they are not HI END when compared to what's out there today and neither would my system be. on a side note JonFo seems to have his own thing going on that you really cannot make to many direct comparisons to.BTW HIFI and snobbery have always seemed to go together very well.
 
Hello,
I cannot imagine that Speakers that retail for even the 5700 Dollars that Vantages retail for are not considered "High End". Let alone the 10 thousand Dollar retail for the Summits and now 13,995 for the Summit X.

I mean yes there are the 100k plus Wilson Alexandria's and other Statement Speakers that sell in the dozens per year, but compared to 99.999997% of Speakers, a 10 thousand Dollar pair of Speakers has to be considered High End.

I would think that Wilson's flagship and other 100k Speakers would fall under the provence of Ultra High End.

I suppose it does not matter what my Vantage, Stage, Vista, and Depth HT is considered. Be it mid fi or whatever.
Cheers,
ML
 
Hello,
I cannot imagine that Speakers that retail for even the 5700 Dollars that Vantages retail for are not considered "High End". Let alone the 10 thousand Dollar retail for the Summits and now 13,995 for the Summit X.

I mean yes there are the 100k plus Wilson Alexandria's and other Statement Speakers that sell in the dozens per year, but compared to 99.999997% of Speakers, a 10 thousand Dollar pair of Speakers has to be considered High End.

I would think that Wilson's flagship and other 100k Speakers would fall under the provence of Ultra High End.

I suppose it does not matter what my Vantage, Stage, Vista, and Depth HT is considered. Be it mid fi or whatever.
Cheers,
ML

none of it really makes any sense does it? me and a friend watched inglorious bastards last night and never did the thought of upgrade or HIEND or any of that even enter my mind it was just an all out good movie and experience thanks to my logans.
 
First of all, a SYSTEM consists of more than its speakers. Also, amount of money spent does not necessarily equal a high end audio system. I have heard a lot of expensive systems consisting of "high end" gear that sounded like crap. Also, there is "high end" and there is "cost-no-object ultra high end". The existence of the latter does not negate the qualities of the former.

I have heard a few Prodigy-based systems that were much "higher end" than a few Summit-based systems I have heard. I heard a ton of modern expensive "high end" systems at RMAF, some of which sounded awesome and some of which sounded like crap. I have also personally heard Jonathan's system, and even before he completely treated his room, it was decidedly a very high end system. To suggest otherwise without actually seeing it and hearing it and talking with the person who put it together, just shows a complete ignorance of what the term "high end audio" means, in my opinion.
 
I agree wholeheartedly Rich, for IMO the definition is how well the sum of the parts gets you as close as possible to "The Absolute Sound" !!
 
Hello,
I have been actively pursuing a pair of Prodigies for some time. The interesting thing is they are fetching more than Summits are on the used market.

Last week I went to see my younger brother who has Ascent i (main) Theater i (Center), Ascent i (Surround) and a Descent i in his HT. He uses 3 Sanders Innersound ESL 300 Amplifiers and a Halo C-1 Processor.

While I love my system, I gotta admit there is truly something magical to his.
And the little bugger has a sick 2 channel setup based around Focal 1028 be's, Rogue M-180's and a Rockport TT. He just got the Focal's replacing Maggie 3.6's.

Listening to his HT has got me on a quest for Prodigies. Or perhaps Odysseys. I really think these were special Speakers.
Cheers,
ML
 
Hello,
I have been actively pursuing a pair of Prodigies for some time. The interesting thing is they are fetching more than Summits are on the used market.

Last week I went to see my younger brother who has Ascent i (main) Theater i (Center), Ascent i (Surround) and a Descent i in his HT. He uses 3 Sanders Innersound ESL 300 Amplifiers and a Halo C-1 Processor.

While I love my system, I gotta admit there is truly something magical to his.
And the little bugger has a sick 2 channel setup based around Focal 1028 be's, Rogue M-180's and a Rockport TT. He just got the Focal's replacing Maggie 3.6's.

Listening to his HT has got me on a quest for Prodigies. Or perhaps Odysseys. I really think these were special Speakers.
Cheers,
ML

I agree with you there - but don't forget that the current line (Gen III) was Gayle-led as well. Gayle was also the one (IIRC) that demanded the speakers get smaller if they were going to stay competitive.
 
Hello,
I just wish they would have used the Aluminum Frame with the Panel dimensions and cabinet size and construction of the Prodigy, Odyssey, and Ascent. Combined with the improvements of the Xstat Panel and I really think it would have made for something amazing.

It is just hard to fully believe that 20 years of the conventional wisdom being the bigger the Panel, the more lifelike the reproduction can be allocated for by adding more holes to the Stators.

I really am pleased with my Vantages and Vistas. It is just hard not to wonder what might have been had the Panel size not been made so much smaller.
Cheers,
ML
 
Hello,
Gordon, what I wrote is pretty much exactly what you stated amigo. Hopefully, Justin and any ML Engineers that might be reading this will consider it.

I am hoping some ML Dealer still has a pair of Prodigy that went unsold and are sitting there waiting for me to go broke on. I seriously think I would pay full retail for a NIB pair.
Cheers,
ML
 
Hi Mark,
I don't know if you checked Agon but someone in Florida has a pair for sale although they seem a bit pricey but sound like they haven't been used much.

Best,
Bob
 
Hello,
I have been actively pursuing a pair of Prodigies for some time. The interesting thing is they are fetching more than Summits are on the used market.

Listening to his HT has got me on a quest for Prodigies. Or perhaps Odysseys. I really think these were special Speakers.
Cheers,
ML

Mark,

Click on my link to my system (you can also see it over on Audiogon on the all out assault section for some good pics)...I can't say enough about my Prodigy! I LOVE THEM! I use Ascent as surrounds and Script as rear surrounds along with a Descent Sub and a Theater center... Rotel powers it all...
 
Mark,

Click on my link to my system (you can also see it over on Audiogon on the all out assault section for some good pics)...I can't say enough about my Prodigy! I LOVE THEM! I use Ascent as surrounds and Script as rear surrounds along with a Descent Sub and a Theater center... Rotel powers it all...

Hello,
I will do. Your system sounds like exactly what I am planning to do, but will be using Aragon/Parasound Amplification. You have yourself a fantastic HT.
Cheers,
ML
 
Hello,
I just wish they would have used the Aluminum Frame with the Panel dimensions and cabinet size and construction of the Prodigy, Odyssey, and Ascent. Combined with the improvements of the Xstat Panel and I really think it would have made for something amazing.

It is just hard to fully believe that 20 years of the conventional wisdom being the bigger the Panel, the more lifelike the reproduction can be allocated for by adding more holes to the Stators.

I really am pleased with my Vantages and Vistas. It is just hard not to wonder what might have been had the Panel size not been made so much smaller.
Cheers,
ML

I wonder what the exact panel size difference is between the prodigy and the summit? there is more hole than there is stator on the newer generation where when you look at the older ones it seems to be more stator than hole.I would like to compare directly the panel size and then factor in the real efficiency difference. you may find that the newer panels are actually bigger than the old I would like to know this.does anybody have the actual specs?
 
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