ML placement assistance

[Jonathan]

We've recently moved into a new residence. The listening area is not entirely optimal, as pictured.

At the far end, behind the MLs is a bay window, the centre being about 3 feet deeper than the sides. The left wall is is drywall (and terminates after about 11 feet) and the right wall brick, running the length of the listening and dining room. The listening room meets the dining room (no rear wall). The rear of the couch (facing the speakers) is 17' from the deepest portion of the bay window. Ceilings are 9.5 feet, width of the listening room 9.7 feet. Floor is hardwood.

At the moment the MLs have been moved onto the area rug to accommodate the Christmas tree. Usually they are about 2 feet from the deepest portion, but less so along either side of the bay, but 2 feet or more from the flanking brick and drywall walls. Confuses me, so see attached images.

So despite a pretty good system, that in my previous home sounded amazing - in this room the sound is boomy, bright, not great imaging, flat. I have fiddled and fiddled with the ML position, used the flashlight method (to the great amusement of my wife).

Basically this is driving me completely bonkers. Any advice would be most appreciated.

 

[sleepysurf]

The angled walls/windows are actually a potential benefit for ESL's (in fact, Roger Sanders of Sanders Sound Systems demo's his kitty-corner). I'm more inclined to think the large area of reflective windows, plus the reflective coffee table are your main problems, with the relatively close positioning to the side walls more a secondary concern.

I would strongly suggest installing (retractable) heavy drapes on the windows, and remove the glass coffee table, or replace it with an upholstered ottoman. You might also try silk ficus trees (or equivalent) behind each speaker as a diffusor.

Another option might be to rotate everything 90 degrees, and place the speakers on the painted wall, but I don't think you have enough depth for that. Besides, having no functional wall behind the listening postition is a big plus.

 

[Hocky]

I would think that the nook area there would do crazy things with the bass and your listening distance seems to be really far away considering how close together the speakers are. What is the distance between the speakers? And the distance to the listening seat?

If it was me, I think that I would be trying to pull the speakers way into the room, much closer to the listening seat. Maybe into a near-field scenario if necessary.

 

[amey01]

Good things to try have been suggested. You may also benefit from some bass traps behind the speakers.

But remember - new rooms always sound different, if not worse in absolute terms. Give yourself time to get used to the new sound and experiment with what has been suggested and MUCH more - you'll get there!

 

[MOON]

I would suggest moving the listening couch closer towards the speakers and see what that brings about. It looks like you have a lot of reflective surfaces and not much absorbtion.Nice looking room. I found having 4 ASC tube traps in my room really helped, especially with the absorbtive side of the trap directly behind each speaker instead of in the corner,

There is a lot of info on acoustics on this site and I learned that Jonfoe and others who suggested absorbing the rear wave were correct. I do have to take new pictures to reflect the change of having the traps directly behind the speakers.

Cheers, Greg

 

[Jonathan]

Thank you for the responses. We had planned to put up blinds, which should help a bit, and last night my spouse and I discussed removal of the coffee table - we like the table, but is is way too reflective. The addition of any other sound absorbing material is a no go given it is the main living room - it is a pity as the rear wave must seriously affect things. I like the suggestion of tiny Christmas trees behind each speaker!

At one point I did bring the speakers well into the room, calculating the position using the guide (based on ceiling height) in the ML owner's manual. While this did improve the sound, the speakers were sort of in the middle of the room and quite close together, but I suppose only about 4" more than now.

Placing the speakers on the carpet has reduce the boominess.

The distance from the left wall is 18" and from the right wall 24" - the distance from the rear wall is about 3' - the distance between the speakers is 4.75'. Hocky, what sort of near field position would you suggest given the room is only about 9.5' wide with the same ceiling height?

How would you suggest fiddling with the 25 and 50 Hz adjustments? What about toe in? And how about making the speakers more vertical?

BTW, really nice systems you have!

 

[Bernard]

If you used Greg's (moon) suggestion, and put ASC Tube Traps directly behind each speaker, it would not mess up the look of the room (great-looking room BTW) as they are cylinders about one foot in diameter, give or take a few inches, depending upon what you buy. I think that is your best solution so far, besides the drapes that have been suggested.

 

[MOON]

You may also want to try this method that I had previously ued which I read in the March 2001 Sterephile fine tunes section.

Buy some bi fold doors from Home depot that would go on a closet.Put them behind your speakers at the wall, in your case in your aclove.You have each side of the slatted door go back on a 35% angle from the hinge. The hinge is centered on the center of the stator panel.

The rear wave is reflected to the side and back to the middle of the room instead of travelling right back to the source, the stator mucking up the sound.This is a very cheap method of improving your sound.

You can buy primer in a spray paint can. Apply the coat of primer and then paint the slatted doors to match your room. You can also cut them off to the height of your speaker.

Most people with summits have the rake so that the panel is level on the vertical.

Thanks again Bernard for the tip on putting the traps directly behind speakers, night and day to what it used to be.

Cheers, Greg

 

[MOON]

Hi Jonathan,

I was looking at your pictures again this morning and noticed you do have more room where your dining area is.May I suggest moving the dining room table near the alclove by the windows and reverse your setup having the summits on the wall in the dining room and your listening couch facing that way.

It looks like you would have wider space to work with and would be able to separate the speakers out some more. Having the table by the window with several nice house plants around would be a nice dining experience.

Cheers, Greg