ML newbie kindly request assistance

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bernard991

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regards to the ML Forum

I am new to stats ....but not to audio
having been in for many many years ...I have been intrigued by all I have read about ML's , unfortunately there are no ML dealers close to me so no chance was afforded to listen .

I have Primaluna tube mono blocks ( 70w/ch ) Odyssey tube preamp , Ack DAC , Music hall CD , Rega P25 , Decware WO32 sub and Harmonic Tech , Cardas & Slinkylink cables as well as high end power cables ....all gear has been modded .

so when the opportunity came up to buy a used pair of SL3's at a good price I jumped ...unfortunately they were damaged by UPS in transit and now I am waiting for the insurance claim to get settled . ( the frames on both tops are broken at the corners )
I decided to listen to them despite their condition , just to ascertain if they still worked .
First impression was really bright ...but in fairness I did not let them warm up much just plugged em in but as time passed there great resolution and wonderful midrange were fully enjoyed . I was a bit concerned that the amps may be limited but this is not the case

However what I find now ,2 days in ...after moving them around in my very limited listening space trying to find the 'right' spot is that for all program material that has high frenquency content the SL3's sound very bright

we tried draping the back of the panels w/ long towels and this helps somewhat but we lose that dipole magic .

I am sure that what will be suggested is that the room perhaps needs treatment but as we are selling the house so any kind of permanent work will not be an option ,
It would be good to hear what experience others have had w/ the SL3's and ML in general in regards to those piercing high notes ....

one last point though ,last night my Audiophool friend was over we listened for sometime , playing around , trying to dial them in ..toeing in toeing out , moving from 48 to 60 " from the front wall etc
then we moved them aside and replacing with my former speakers , unnamed but respectable 2K units
within 10 seconds we looked at each other and both said 'these are broken '
bring back the ML's ....now if I can just tame the Highs ....
thanks to all
with regards......
another Bernard
 
I’m a newbe here too. Welcome!

I had a similar problem with my Aerius i’s . The thing that made the most difference for me was power. These speakers really eat it up. The stats are low impedance primarily supplied by the internal crossover beyond that your amp is basically driving a transformer. So you will need a high current amp. There are many views here about which is best. I haven’t decided yet. I’m currently using a solid state mosfet design that pushes 200 watts into 4 ohms (150 @ 8). This was a good first step for me. Speaking of which, a warning is in order. To see it follow the link (>) in this quote:
Scott,
I'll agree with what everyone has said, and then some. To reiterate…
Have fun!
Scott
 
It would be good to hear what experience others have had w/ the SL3's and ML in general in regards to those piercing high notes ....

another Bernard
I have SL3s and do not hear piercing high notes (and I have excellent hearing). I drove them with 50 watts then 110 watts, both tubes, and had no such problem.

Regards,
the original Bernard :D
 
Last edited:
IC's

thanks for your replies
Bernard I like the look of your pool noodles ...perhaps I will make a set
I was also thinking that the IC's I have installed may be adding to my 'problem' I think now that my former spkrs were a bit dark and the cables I used to bring them to life may be emphasizing the HF with the SL3's

I have a pair of Cardas that I will use for tests ....

what are others using ?
 
IC's

I use Cardas Neutral Reference IC's and speaker cables. Per member nsgarch, those are the wrong speaker cables to use with electrostats due to their high capacitance. But I am happy with them.
 
I dragged the spkrs over to my pals place last night , he has a nice setup with atmasphere OTL's ...we listened for awhile and sure enough the hard brightness was there any time the music reached for the higher octaves ...
unfortunately he had just sold his autoformers
however he remembered that he has a switch on the amps to give some feedback ( 6db )
this helped in a big way ...I guess it is to do w/ the impedance dropping to 1 ohm and below & causing distortion
for the remainder of the evening we enjoyed the SL3's to the point where when we reinstalled his speakers , they sounded lifeless
I think I need to use this demo w/ regards to my system .
 
I dragged the spkrs over to my pals place last night , he has a nice setup with atmasphere OTL's ...
for the remainder of the evening we enjoyed the SL3's to the point where when we reinstalled his speakers , they sounded lifeless
I think I need to use this demo w/ regards to my system .

What are your pals speakers?

:welcome: to the hoard btw!
 
I've also had great luck with Cardas, but I used Neutral Reference for a long time, just switched to Shunyata Orion.

Cardas and Shunyata everywhere else in the system with great results.
 
Joey
he has Merlin MXE's w/ a super tweeter
yesterday he was negotiating to buy a pair of Requests
but he told me we both need autoformers

...ANYONE else notice this high frequency distortion / hardness with tube amps ?
 
...ANYONE else notice this high frequency distortion / hardness with tube amps ?


First off Bernard....welcome !

Regarding brightness issues with tube amps....me thinks it's something else ??
Normally tube amps 'roll-off' the highs, part of the tube distortion traits if you will.

my thoughts......

1) room acoustics / boundry problem

2) possibly your speaker damage is more than cosmetic

3) amp issues......did you roll tubes ? microphonic issues ? auto-biasing out of whack ?

4) speaker cabling capacitnce, inductance, resistance missmatches ?


Good Luck !
 
Dave thanks for your comments ...
the highs are not rolled off at all ...it would be better if they were ...although what they do right is VERY good !
the same thing happens at my pals house and his room is different /better and more dead than mine
my amps have been modded w/ all premium parts , the tubes are NOS input / driver ( Holland Amperex ) and the powers are Gold Lion reissue KT88 ...really nice glass
...so I am thinking that my friend and I both have Harmonic Tech pro 9 ( heavy ) spkr cable perhaps this is a mismatch
I am not sure what the specs of this cable are ...
but can you tell me what are we looking for in a good spkr cable for the ML's ?
 
I am not sure what the specs of this cable are ...
but can you tell me what are we looking for in a good spkr cable for the ML's ?

Bernard, Check out the link to and article / white paper that nsgarch provided.



http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/Cables WP.htm

You can do a search and find various bits of disscussion on cables for our M/L's.

With respect to the Specification issues, for the $$ spent I'm using www.signalcable.com "Ultra Speaker cables" , values relative capacitence, resistence and inductence all good.

As I'm sure you know cable discussion very often lead to "The Battle of the Brands", so when your ears / wallet hear what is good for your system ....go for it ! and as Dan (DTB300) says......"sit back and enjoy the music" !!
 
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