just plain disgusted

[lpaudio2]

So I am on my 3rd yes count them 3rd set of replacement stators. I ordered the first set, they had a frequency imbalance, and were not totally straight. Called, swapped out - no problem, second set had a bunch / crease in the film, the 3rd set has developed a buzz distortion in the upper midrange. Its very annoying to have the best speakers in the world, but crappy sound. Im honestly totally disgusted. I love how my speakers sound when they work, and they are especially treasured as they were inherited from my grandpa, but seriously, I feel like throwing them out the window some days.

Does anyone have sanders email or contact info.

 

[nsgarch]

If you mean Roger Sanders, it's www.sanderssoundsystems.com

 

[lpaudio2]

no. why would I mean him. I mean Gayle Martin Sanders

 

[Feltran]

I know it's frustrating, but there's good reason to believe that it's the exception, not the rule. If everyone, or even 5% of people had to go through four stators to find one that worked it would be a big problem, but since that doesn't seem to be the case, I would encourage you not to make too big of a deal out of it.

 

[C.A.P]

What speaker is this ?

 

[FISH_MAN]

could you explain more

what do you mean by frequency imbalance I just want more details.
and yes that totally sucks! you would wonder if they really check these
things sort of like the cracking plastic on the vantage and vistas before
they leave the factory? I am sure logan will make it right whith you.
If you look up electrostatic speaker online it describes it as simple in theory
but complicated execution I think that is the nature of the beast.

*just more of my random 2cents

 

[slowGEEZR]

CAP, I believe he has the reQuests.

 

[Bernard]

no. why would I mean him. I mean Gayle Martin Sanders

Gayle Sanders is no longer at Martin-Logan. In any case, it is Jim Power, the service manager, whom you should contact. He is extremely helpful. His email ID is:

[email protected]

 

[C.A.P]

CAP, I believe he has the reQuests.

Yes the only way to test frequency imbalance is with test tones and sweeps with a SPL meter and a MIC. WAS THIS DONE ? If one panel is down with new panels you have a crossover issue, or Audio transformer heading out !

Wrinkles I have seen and had a set come to me from ML brand new that were shipped back !

 

[lpaudio2]

Imbalance I checked with my own ears, and the main reason they were sent back was the rather extreme bend and suspicious dent in the box near where the bend was. (see my previous post). I felt like they should be straight. Actually sweep testing in room would be pretty hard, as measuring dipoles is difficult at best.

set 1: bent, imbalance
set 2: sounded OK, wrinkle in film (2 wrinkles actually) called ML said best to swap
set 3: this buzz/ distortion, sorta sounds like a semi blown tweeter, sibilant and raspy at specific frequencies.

(edit twice to add these details, one speaker was significantly louder than the other - some vocals were not centered properly - only some frequencies though - set 1 and 3 were opposite speakers with issues. )

I do realize dipoles vary frequency however I have lived with mangepnas for over 10 years... and I have swapped the maggies into the exact spot... also the old stators did not have the imbalance when they were running properly.

The speaker that was louder started out in the other channel from the one thats having the issue right now.

I am very sensitive to imbalance so, I do pickup on it easily. I asked ML if they would sweep test them, but they said they normally dont....

Im listening to the old magnepans, they sound so much cleaner without distortion that the logan has. I also tested via the headphone out.

I have swapped so far, amps, preamps, power cords, interconnects, sources, speaker cables, you name it. Lucky I dont have a woman, otherwise the 12 sets of speaker cables and enough gear to probably make 4 stereo systems. lol.

I dont live too far from logan, im going to see if i can just drive down there, get me some good bbq while im at it.

 

[amey01]

no. why would I mean him. I mean Gayle Martin Sanders

I thought you meant him too - 'cos he makes a competing product!

 

[User211]

Once again the two Sanders cause complete confusion...

lpaudio2 - I have SO been where you are now, with my 1st Aerius panel replacements.

1) 1st set shipped - arrived badly bent. In retrospect, once mounted in the frames, they would probably have been OK.
2) 2nd set channel imbalance - I too am really sensitive to that. And it's normally a sign that the panels are on the way out...
3) Drove to dealer (90 miles away), got the 3rd set but made of choice from what he had, demanding intense visual inspection beforehand!!! They were OK, but took ages to calm down - months, in fact. I had this theory the mylar was stretched too tight, but will never know if it was, I guess.

My 1st set of Ascent replacements were EXCELLENT, with minimal or no break-in required.

ESLs are a bit of a pain sometimes... but I put up with it cos, well, I LIKE 'EM ALOT!

Don't let all the hassle put you off... you'll get there. It's a bit like taming a wild bitch sometimes, I think BEHAVE, PANELS, BEHAVE!!!

 

[VanDaRo]

I'd chalk this up to a run of bad luck... Don't give up, man !!

~VDR

 

[User211]

no. why would I mean him. I mean Gayle Martin Sanders

Because you are totally p*s**d off, and what to defect, of course!

Blasphemy.

 

[FISH_MAN]

just like anything High performance

sometimes you have to tinker with things and experience a lot of hassle
to get them right. even on an off day they still sound better than say a set of b&w's even the best models they have. I once auditioned a pair of 803's
I think and i have to say that their was nothing magical about them. they had them hooked up to about 30k+ Mcintosh equipment I looked at the sales
person and told him I thought they are missing something he asked what I like to listen on when I told him he just said "well" I would love to hook my
spires up in that room with the same electronics and do a side by side! my point is that I think they are worth the f*** around once in a while.

 

[Horchem1972]

Poor Quality Control

Even though they usually have great service,they dropped the ball on this one.I can understand getting one bad set of panels,but three should be looked into.Unless damaged in shipping,three bad panels in a row is poor quality control.You would be furious,If you received three amplifiers in a row that were junk.I really enjoy ML and their products,but you have a right to be angry.Hopefully you will receive some working panels.Good Luck.

 

[music again]

Quality

I've had my share of issues with Vantages and now Summits.

I too am very sensitive to imbalance in the sound. The last set of panels I had were "ONLY" 3db off. That's enough to destroy imaging to my ears. Only one panel was then replaced, even though they are supposed to be "matched pairs". I have been VERY PATIENT as I do love the sound when it works. I haven't given up yet, and am working with a couple people at ML to get things resolved.

Even though they usually have great service,they dropped the ball on this one.I can understand getting one bad set of panels,but three should be looked into.Unless damaged in shipping,three bad panels in a row is poor quality control.You would be furious,If you received three amplifiers in a row that were junk.I really enjoy ML and their products,but you have a right to be angry.Hopefully you will receive some working panels.Good Luck.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I think a double check is in order

I think another lookover at the factory would minimize these problems and preserve martin logans intergrity this would save their customers a lot of problems. they trully make a great sounding speaker but on the third set I would be mad to.

when they replaced your panel music again how close are they now?

 

[lpaudio2]

working with Jim.

Sounds like martin logan has some QC issues and im not the only one! I agree 3db is horrible imbalance and unacceptable in a 1k speaker let alone what these cost.

I shipped back two sets so far

1st set - confirmed toasted by UPS
2nd set - said was ok to spite crease in film???
3rd set- mounted now, Siblance.

Swapped electronics from side to side - its def the stator, the siblance increases with volume.

Luckily I am only 3 hours from ML, so mabye this is an excuse to visit and see about getting a pair tested frequency sweeped, and then put in the back of my car without UPS and their grubby brown trucks.

FWIW, I listened to b&w 803s also at my local dealer, with my own front end (brought it to compare to a PS audio link), and they happened to have my same model preamp as well (a bryston 25), connected with top flight AQ stuff, and fed through a very expensive fully balanced ARC amp... it sounded like blah. My mcintosh 225 and Jamo e750s sound better, however the 225 is a incredible amp.

 

[Horchem1972]

3db Imbalance is huge.

Three decibals is a huge imbalance.One of your amplifier channels is working twice as hard as the other.Every 3db takes twice the power.Many people replace panels for less than that.That is totally unacceptable.I am not bashing ML but there seems to be alot of quality control issues reported on this site.People receiving multiple sets of bad panels,panel slippage,creases in their panels and numerous other problems.Hopefully they will get it under control because they make a great product and do not need to lose customers.good luck again with your panel situation.