It's kinda sad that the security state mentality has permeated just about every facet of life, that information and opinion just disappear without notice or explanation, that intellegent adults are perceived as needing to be protected by some authority rather than solve the problem themselves. It's kinda sad this is accepted without a second thought or inquiry.
It's Kinda Sad
- Thread starter Beakman
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
As the line from the song goes: "How long...has this been going on?"
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Have patience, Beakman. This is a privately run forum and Tom, Tim, and Dave do a great job moderating it. Sometimes, it takes a little time to decide how to handle a situation, especially if Tom is unavailable. Ultimately, Tom has the final say on anything that happens because it is his forum. But he is generally pretty straightforward with everyone about what actions he takes and the reasons he takes them. So I would recommend waiting a little while before getting too upset.
RichTeer
Well-known member
I'm confused... What's this thread about--posts disappearing? 
Bernard
Well-known member
This is about Justin's "Definition of an Audiophile" thread that disappeared after the discussion got heated.
RichTeer
Well-known member
Oh, OK, thanks for the explanation. It must've heated up quite recently, because I followed that thread until last night and it seemed pretty civil to me. But it's not my call... *Shrug*
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
What's "kinda sad" is that people can't be civil towards each other in an online forum.
The thread got heated, i got several complaints from people, so I nuked it.
Most of the time, I try to be a referee in such matters, but the thread wasn't ML specific (ie less valuable), so I thought it was better just to nuke it.
The thread got heated, i got several complaints from people, so I nuked it.
Most of the time, I try to be a referee in such matters, but the thread wasn't ML specific (ie less valuable), so I thought it was better just to nuke it.
Tom, I appreciate all you do here and have some inkling of an idea of the responsibilities attached with running a forum. The thread had value to all who posted, heated or not. Shouldn't they be given the value of notification of a thread being nuked?
Pcar928fan
Well-known member
I like that song... How Long...Has this been going on...
Audiophiliac
Well-known member
Free speech does not apply here. It is Tom's forum and he can do with it whatever he wishes regardless of others' opinions. If you do not like it, you do not have to participate. Period. And people who cannot accept this reality do not deserve to be members of the forum.
Go Tom!!!!! Way to put your foot down.
note: I did not ever read past post 3 or 4 on the thread in question.
Go Tom!!!!! Way to put your foot down.
note: I did not ever read past post 3 or 4 on the thread in question.
No it did not, when ANY thread turns to useless banter..... that's what the 'axe is for' !!!
Tom's reasons were plain and clear, I certianlly understood them, didn't you ??
So why do we have an Off Topic column anyway when it has nothing to do with Martin Logan speakers or any Audio related topics? It's all just useless banter or politically devisive topics and often not conducive to friendly discussions.
This column got really bad with stones thrown back and forth during the last political campaigns.
Nevermind, I'm sure my post will soon disappear with no reason provided. If the moderators are going to delete peoples posts then why not just delete this whole Off Topic column where most civil unrest occurs?
This column got really bad with stones thrown back and forth during the last political campaigns.
Nevermind, I'm sure my post will soon disappear with no reason provided. If the moderators are going to delete peoples posts then why not just delete this whole Off Topic column where most civil unrest occurs?
Audiophiliac
Well-known member
The thing is that there does not have to be any rhyme or reason for the actions taken by the forum owner/operators/moderators. They have no regulations or rules to follow. They can do what they wish. If they do not like what is being posted for ANY reason, they can make it vanish. There seems to be other forums that appear to have higher tolerance for such mindless banter. Maybe try there?
Aye, there's the crux. No explanation was given at the time when the post had vanished. I do not question the reason of the deletion, nor the right of the site owner to delete a post, as a matter of fact had inferred as to why it had vanished. But at the same time I beleive that a notification of such action should be offered to the other half of the equation, the participants.
Audiophiliac, I'll hand you the gun and get down on my knees when the day comes that I become as acceptably servile to authority as you would like. As I implied with my initial post,If you do not like it, you do not have to participate. Period. And people who cannot accept this reality do not deserve to be members of the forum.
First of all, let's be clear about what this was and what it wasn't. It was not "useless banter", with all due respect, Dave. It was a passionate discussion among members about a topic to which many of us relate, the definition of an audiophile. It got sidetracked into another issue, which also touches a chord with many members, and that was about the differences between live vs. recorded music and the quality of the sound relative to each. (If that topic is not relevant to Martin Logan speaker owners, then I don't know what is). Unfortunately, the thread deteriorated into a heated exchange between myself and another forum member, and the final forum post by the other member contained personal insults and expletives directed specifically toward me that, according to the clear standards of this forum, have no place here.
Let me state for the record that I fully support Tom in his decision to nuke the thread, and I would fully support him had he decided to take any other action, including if he decided to ban me for being a participant in such a heated exchange. I have complete respect for what Tom has done with this forum and for how much time, effort and energy he puts toward keeping it going. I will not question his decisions as relates to the management of this forum.
Having said that, I do agree with Beakman that I would have preferred that he post an explanation immediately so that everyone knew the reason the thread disappeared. Generally, that is exactly what he does. But this forum is not Tom's full-time job and everyone needs to understand that this is a labor of love for him and sometimes he has to make decisions about how much time to put into dealing with it. Playing referee to inane squabbles among members probably ranks pretty low on his list. So I fully understand him just nuking the thread and moving on. If he had more time to deal with it, perhaps he would have handled it differently. Perhaps not.
Regardless, I think the time has come to put it behind us and get back to the purpose of the forum, which is friendly discussion about Martin Logan speakers and all things audio. For my part, I sincerely apologize to all forum members for my actions that contributed to this situation.
Actually Craig what I should have added was the apparent 'lack of civility' ....again, as Tom stated.
Regardless, 'Off Topic' does not have to be 'Off Color' !!
TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
Maybe I should have just closed the thread instead of nuking it....
Jimna
Well-known member
agreed, and i too would like to apologize to all for letting the "irish" in me lash out. ive come to really enjoy this place and all the unique members that comprises the community, and what they all bring to the table. the last thing i want to do is offend anyone. rich, im sorry for how i said what i said. tom, tim and dave, i apologize for the inconvenience of dealing with the issue, and to all how posted to the thread i am sorry its gone.
Truth be told, and this time I am serious as a heart attack, I was a bit worried as to why the thread had been nuked as I had literally made a post right before I was sedated for a colonoscopy. I was then knocked out for the procedure and when I came to, I was told I could not drive a car, handle heavy machinery, make any important decisions or post anything on MLOC for the next 12 hours.
Imagine my surprise when I finally did get back online, I saw the thread had been nuked and at first I thought my fart jokes had taken the thread down, or worse my drug induced post had created a sort of audiophile armageddon.
But then after a few hours I realized what had happened that what ever it was it had superceded the entertaining banter of the thread and in the end, which was sore at this point, it really didn't matter.
But anyone who has done a colonoscopy and experienced the amnesia effect that it has, well it makes you wonder about just about anything you did over the last 24 hours.
And for the record, I thought Justin's live experience post was highly entertaining and downright funny, it made me think back on all the crazy concert experiences that I have had since my first Beatles concert as a kid in the 60s. I think that alone raised the thread above the level of just banter.
Imagine my surprise when I finally did get back online, I saw the thread had been nuked and at first I thought my fart jokes had taken the thread down, or worse my drug induced post had created a sort of audiophile armageddon.
But then after a few hours I realized what had happened that what ever it was it had superceded the entertaining banter of the thread and in the end, which was sore at this point, it really didn't matter.
But anyone who has done a colonoscopy and experienced the amnesia effect that it has, well it makes you wonder about just about anything you did over the last 24 hours.
And for the record, I thought Justin's live experience post was highly entertaining and downright funny, it made me think back on all the crazy concert experiences that I have had since my first Beatles concert as a kid in the 60s. I think that alone raised the thread above the level of just banter.
Bernard
Well-known member
Joe, that is too much information
