help with ML speaker selection

[newbie]

15 years or more ago, I fell in love with the sound of ML's at Sound by Singer in NYC. Unfortunately, I never had the space for them.

But I have never forgotten them either...

Now despite the usual WAF, I want to get a nice set. Which ones, new or used?

Only for 2 channel music.

I (still) have limitations on placement, probably only 2 feet from the rear wall, which itself is only 15 feet wide. (tall ceilings though, and a deeper room).

So... what would be the optimal new or used pair? I would like to save money like anyone else but also willing to go for the optimal.

And a nice used amp to drive them?

Any good deals out there?

thanks again,

 

[Bernard]

You need to give us a bit more to work with:

- what is your budget?
- what will you be using for a source?

 

[eknuds01]

If you aren't opposed to buying used, check out audiogon.com

Figure your budget and go from there. For less than $2000 you should be able to land some used aerius i and maybe a used Sunfire amp (or similar).

Erik

 

[twich54]

Welcome !

As Erik and Bernard asked, what's your budget, also given the close approxamation to the wall behind them you will want to set aside some $$$ for acoustic absorption material.

 

[newbie]

My budget won't be the limiting factor; room placement and appeasing my wife's visual sense will be (antique decorated room).

I may need instead to go from living room to the family room, but that room is even brighter with wood paneled walls (wainscotted up to 4 feet).

I listen to jazz, vocals, and quite a bit of classic rock.

On the budget, I guess I like value the most hence a used price is always best, but I won't let a couple of thousand dollars stop me from making the best decision.

And i will probably run a pandora input into these as well.

I know this is so vague. Last speakers I bought, which were new, were thiel 3.6's long ago,and they set in boxes.

dampening materials are fine in one room harder to visualize in the lr. there would be windows and drapery behind them there.

we do play and listen to the piano, so that makes placement harder in the lr.

thank you

 

[newbie]

also, am I kidding myself again about getting ML's given the room situations? maybe I should just get some sonus faber mini monitors?

how close to the back wall and sidewalls can you go without loosing the spaciousness and imaging and clarity I loved so much. I can live with a smaller sweetspot but...

 

[CCH]

For what it's worth, I am using a pair of Summits in a room no wider than yours. (I think the room is 21 or 22 feet long and something like 14 feet wide.) These are still rather large and don't exactly hide themselves, but neither do they completely dominate the room the way some of my previous speakers did. My setup is certainly not optimal; doubtless, I could get more out of these speakers if I had a purpose-built room and didn't have to accommodate exisiting furniture, etc. At the same time, I haven't heard anything else of similar size or smaller for which I would trade the Summits. You could, of course, go a bit smaller with either the Vantage or the Spire. (The Spire is about the same size but not quite as deep.) There are other, still smaller ML speakers, but you do lose some of the stat's charms when you go small.

I did happen to notice that someone is selling a pair of new, still-in-their-boxes Summits on eBay right now. 'Something to consider. (I'd buy them myself if I had any way of justifying owning two pairs.) The other approach, if you are willing to buy new, is to find a dealer who will let you take a pair of Vantages or Spires home and give them a test run. The advantages and disadvantages are obvious: you can try before you commit, but you'll also pay more since you are buying new. Perhaps you can even audition both a ML speaker and some other brand from the same dealer. This sometimes requires that you buy something (e.g., that you pay for one pair but have the right of return for a store credit toward something else). Most of our area stores would be willing to offer such an arrangement since they know they are getting a sale one way or the other. It prevents you from demoing their stuff and then buying from someone else.

Good luck and let us know how it all works out.

Best wishes,
Craig

 

[eknuds01]

also, am I kidding myself again about getting ML's given the room situations? maybe I should just get some sonus faber mini monitors?

how close to the back wall and sidewalls can you go without loosing the spaciousness and imaging and clarity I loved so much. I can live with a smaller sweetspot but...

I don't think you are kidding yourself. 15' if fairly wide (what about the other dimension?).

Assuming the room 12 x 15 or 15 x 20, something like aerius i, vista, vantage, aeon i, even summits are will be fine. You probably just want to avoid the really big units like ReQuests, Prodigy, Odyssey, etc. But there are always exceptions - people get large speakers to work in sorts of environments.

Regarding the placement of the speakers - that's a matter of practicality and choice. There's no consensus here, but maybe one thing many of us would agree on is that you don't want to bury the speakers in a corner. So if you can back them away from the front wall by 2-3 ft and away from the side walls by a few feet, I think you're in good shape. Most people don't have huge rooms where they have 5'+ to play with in any given dimension.

As Dave pointed out - one idea is not blow the budget on the speakers and electronics right away. Adding some acoustic panels or traps could help improve the listening environment, even if the speakers are fairly close to the walls. Actually, most people will advocate room treatments even if you had a large room where the walls aren't close to the ML speakers.

 

[zaphod]

also, am I kidding myself again about getting ML's given the room situations? maybe I should just get some sonus faber mini monitors?

how close to the back wall and sidewalls can you go without loosing the spaciousness and imaging and clarity I loved so much. I can live with a smaller sweetspot but...

not at all - i wish i could have 15' wide - my CLS would enjoy that. 2' is probably the minimal i'd want from the back wall, but it's still pretty good. i have 4 for the CLS but those are big panels.

 

[Bernard]

If it will fit in with your decor, there is (was?) a new pair of Summits in red, with black leather cabinets for, IIRC, $7,400. Do a search on the classifieds here if interested, With sufficient absorption, 2' from the front wall should not be a problem, though the WAF might be.

As you are going to essentially drive the panels only if you buy those Summits, a nice tube amp from ARC would do you nicely. There are lots of deals on ARC on Audiogon.

If budget is not a big concern you could of course consider the CLX.

 

[newbie]

OK, I sorted out which room.

I will put them in the family room, which is bigger than I thought, with the speakers going on a 16' wide wall, and the length of the room being 20'.

I can easily set them 2' off the side walls and 2' from the front wall (and when you say 2', is that to the front of the panel?}

Finally, summit, spire with sub, others, what is recommended?

Height at 5' or even 6' is no problem.

any natural wood color would be fine too.

I may incoroprate these as l/r with a drop down screen I have as well, but not sure yet.

all the best,

 

[Bernard]

I can easily set them 2' off the side walls and 2' from the front wall (and when you say 2', is that to the front of the panel?

No, to the back of the woofer enclosure. As always, you would have to experiment. Who knows, WAF may not even be a problem after she hears how good they sound :music:

 

[newbie]

I was afraid you would say to the back of the enclosure... rats.

Now maybe a spire would be less deep and add a sub, or go with a summit?

 

[twich54]

What's the big problem with being out from the wall ??

FWIW, my room is 14'6" wide, if you take a look at my system pics you can see my Spire's fit easily within the width, from the back of the bass enclosure to the wall is 30", so if you can't get at least 24" your gonna need even more acoustical treatment that I have.

 

[zaphod]

OK, I sorted out which room.

I will put them in the family room, which is bigger than I thought, with the speakers going on a 16' wide wall, and the length of the room being 20'.

I can easily set them 2' off the side walls and 2' from the front wall (and when you say 2', is that to the front of the panel?}

Finally, summit, spire with sub, others, what is recommended?

Height at 5' or even 6' is no problem.

any natural wood color would be fine too.

I may incoroprate these as l/r with a drop down screen I have as well, but not sure yet.

all the best,

used CLS. a pair on ebay for 1700 right now. add 900 for new panels (if you want to) and you are away to the races.

 

[TomDac]

No, to the back of the woofer enclosure.

I always thought it was the back of the panel itself and not the woofer enclosure. This seems to make sense because your main objective in doing this is to prevent the rear wave of the panel from reflecting off the wall behind it, correct??

I can't imagine measuring from the back of the woofer enclosure for Prodigys or Odysseys... those woofer enclosures are HUGE!

 

[FOUNTAIN]

No, to the back of the woofer enclosure. As always, you would have to experiment. Who knows, WAF may not even be a problem after she hears how good they sound :music:

Maybe I've been doing this wrong, but I thought it was measured from the back of the panel since this is the source of sound that we are concerned with. I measure from the middle of the concave(I think this is the right word) to the back wall. If memory serves me correct I read how to do this somewhere in a thread here. Oh well.... the point is newbie is the farther you can pull them off of the back wall the better. At least up to 5 or 6 feet. So if you can pull them out another 12 inches or so then you will most likely be rewarded.

 

[twich54]

but I thought it was measured from the back of the panel since this is the source of sound that we are concerned with. .

Correct ! we (Bernard and I) were mearly trying to clairify what 'newbie' was using as apoint of refrence for his measurement.

From what I gather on his last post 'newbie' is talking esl panel distance of two feet ( too little distance, IMO)

 

[Bernard]

I always thought it was the back of the panel itself and not the woofer enclosure. This seems to make sense because your main objective in doing this is to prevent the rear wave of the panel from reflecting off the wall behind it, correct??

Correct, but I think it's very dependent upon what you have for a front wall. If it is very absorbent you may be able to get away with 2'. In my case my front wall is glass, so even the >4' that I have is probably not quite enough. Perhaps JonFo can provide some clarification.

 

[newbie]

Let's assume I can make the depth work now.

So which speaker: the Summits (maybe one of the pairs on ebay or audiogon, Spires, the CSL that needs its panel replaced (how hard is that?), etc?

And any good used amps to drive them?

getting excited!