HDMI Handshake solution - Gefen HDMI Detective Plus

[tsv_1]

Thanks Repman!

First time I've seen this and I have to say there are spooky similarities with the path I'm going down (i.e. Atlona AND the MW KWA-150 amps)... plain weird.

It is especially encouraging to hear the thing seems to do everything it's kinda advertised to do. I say "kinda" because I had to do some digging just to make sure it would actually operate at all the speeds I hoped it would handle. The fact that this reviewer had good things to say about the outcome is especially interesting given all the *potential* issues with sound quality (i.e. DSD to PCM conversion in the Oppo, HDMI de-embedding processing, and the fact that the S/PDIF is output via optical - why do that?... why not just copper?).

Anyway, can't wait till I can gather up the various peices to this puzzle and fit them together to see (hear) the result! Will keep y'all posted.

Thanks again Repman for taking the time to post this info! Can you tell me which forum this is from?

Cheers

 

[repman]

Your welcome Todd , I thought you would be interested in this as you were heading down the same path

the website is www.AudioCircle.com and it was a review in the HI Rez Music section.

 

[tsv_1]

Your welcome Todd , I thought you would be interested in this as you were heading down the same path

the website is www.AudioCircle.com and it was a review in the HI Rez Music section.

Great - Thanks again! I'll go check that out in more detail. As an aside, my Atlona box shipped today and my KWA-150s are being built as we speak. Target ship date on those is 3/11.

The only problem now is my CLXs are untethered and silenced. I need me some temporary juice!

Cheers

 

[JonFo]

It will be interesting to see what it can do. I was reading somewhere that the audio LPCM stream is actually clocked through via the video stream clock (within HDMI), so stripping the data out is a bit more complicated than synchronous capture or clock recovery from a data-only stream (e.g. S/PDIF). As such, the HDMI output of the source has to be set to at least 720p in order to guarantee sufficient b/w for max 24/192 audio.

Definitely something people need to make note of, since the silly HDMI spec clocks everything to the video signal, it must be of sufficient bandwidth to support MCH LPCM at high bit rates. 720p is minimum for 8ch 24/96 LPCM from DVD-A's.

To complicate things further, I'm now looking into digital room correction... Lyngdorf's DPA-1 looks interesting. And I know you're an Audyssey guy (or at least you've mentioned it in a positive light more than once in this forum). I've looked at Lyngdorf, Tact, and Audyssey to some extent... and have done some searching here to see what others have tried, but I'm still in data discovery mode. Any thoughts, tips, ideas wrt DRC for my 2-channel CLX based system would be much appreciated.

I would ideally like to keep all the DRC within the digital domain (i.e. no A/D or D/A conversion at the input/output of the box). Otherwise I'm not sure what good a high-end stand-alone DAC does if I'm just going to end up taking the analog output from a DRC unit, right?

Thanks

I've been using/looking at DRC solutions for the past decade (longer actually, as I auditioned early SigTech system in the mid 90's).
I've used/setup Meridian MRC, helped setup a TacT (similar to Lyngdorf), and deep dives into DEQX and read everything I can about Anthem ARC, Trinov and other even more obscure DRC systems.
Of course, I own an advanced Audyssey based rig, including the full Pro kit with calibrated Mic, mic-pre and Pro software.

My feedback would be that I'd look for a one-box solution (and this is after I've had dozens of boxes in the pre-chain), as that's the simplest, cleanest way of getting good results.

Currently I can only recommend one box that has the combination of audio quality, advanced decoding and a well implemented DRC that would survive the revealing nature of the CLX. That's the Denon AVP.

Too many audiophiles deprive themselves of the pleasure of this unit due to the brand, but the AVP is indeed a high-end piece. Overbuilt to the nines. I've studied the schematics, opened it up and participated in deep discussions on design and implementation and this is indeed a high-end box.

Having come from Meridian front ends, my standards for preamp performance were pretty high, and this AVP does not disappoint. Plenty of Lexicon, Krell and other 'high-end' brand owners love their AVP.

The Audyssey process is probably one of the best DRC out there at the moment.

The trick is how one runs the measurements. This is the single most critical factor in determining whether the system will sound good or not. Mistakes in measurement process are the leading cause of dissatisfaction, followed by most peoples unfamiliarity with 'clean' bass.

This is why I wrote the DRC Setup guide for ML's http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=9401

 

[JonFo]

TSV, regarding the A/D questions, yes, you definitely want to keep the signals in the digital domain prior to the DRC process, so units like the TacT/Lyngdorf are good for that, all other digital input solutions I’m aware of are built into multichannel preamps.

Not that a using a mch pre on a 2ch system is bad. I still do a lot of 2ch listening on my rig.

Plus units like the Denon AVP also feature clock-synch features like denonLink4, which when paired with a Denon-branded player like the BDP-4010, deliver fully clock-synched DSD and mch LPCM from ALL physical media sources. This means on SACD, the DSD decoding is done in the preamp. For DVD-A high-rez mch LPCM is delivered via-clocked synched, jitter free DenonLink. For BluRay, all LPCM tracks are also delivered jitter-free thanks to DL4 clock-synch for audio on HDMI.

For high-rez digital playback, I’ve yet to see a combo that delivers better infrastructure for clean output.

Even the HDMI in’s seem relatively jitter-free, as all the high-rez audio I ship from my HTPC over HDMI sounds comparable to the originals over DenonLink. Slight edge to the DL4 delivery though.

 

[tsv_1]

TSV, regarding the A/D questions, yes, you definitely want to keep the signals in the digital domain prior to the DRC process, so units like the TacT/Lyngdorf are good for that, all other digital input solutions I’m aware of are built into multichannel preamps.

Not that a using a mch pre on a 2ch system is bad. I still do a lot of 2ch listening on my rig.

Plus units like the Denon AVP also feature clock-synch features like denonLink4, which when paired with a Denon-branded player like the BDP-4010, deliver fully clock-synched DSD and mch LPCM from ALL physical media sources. This means on SACD, the DSD decoding is done in the preamp. For DVD-A high-rez mch LPCM is delivered via-clocked synched, jitter free DenonLink. For BluRay, all LPCM tracks are also delivered jitter-free thanks to DL4 clock-synch for audio on HDMI.

For high-rez digital playback, I’ve yet to see a combo that delivers better infrastructure for clean output.

Even the HDMI in’s seem relatively jitter-free, as all the high-rez audio I ship from my HTPC over HDMI sounds comparable to the originals over DenonLink. Slight edge to the DL4 delivery though.

This summer or fall, assuming local and/or world events allow, I plan to upgrade my HT to 3D and at the same time overhaul the audio portion as well. While I was leaning toward the AVP before, I think your observations have me more seriously considering that option.

For my CLX 2-chan setup, I wish someone like W4S or Weiss made a universal player with full format decode and uber-high-end D/A + analog outs. But also with a "synchronous digital tape loop" allowing for connection to an outboard DRC. To me, that would be the cleanest possible solution while still allowing some "fun" (i.e. because just one single unit that does it all? Where's the fun in that?).

I'm a minimalist at heart (having configured many past systems using a high-end source with output level control direct to amps, period). The less "stuff" between the source and my ears, the better. But at the same time, 90% of the challenge/enjoyment of this hobby is finding sympathetic components and dialing things in. There's a certain amount of "individuality" in this hobby that too much integration directly conflicts with.

OK, now I'm just rambling. Thanks again for sharing your experience/insight.

Cheers

 

[tsv_1]

FYI for anyone following this. I received the Atlona HD570fm.

I connected it into my system: Oppo BDP-93->HDMI->HD570->TOSLINK->W4S DAC2.

I then inserted a hybrid SACD into the Oppo, pressed play and Boom - the W4S reads 88.2 KHz in as advertised. Suhweet!

I can't make any sound quality comparison at this point because my system is waiting on new amps (and I have yet to install any stop-gap)... but I really just wanted to make sure the de-embedding and DAC recognition all worked as intended. This is truly awesome as it should allow me to play my (not insignificant) SACD library at will with (hopefully at least some of) the enhanced audio quality afforded SACD vs redbook.

Now, I also tried one of 2L's Blu-Ray audio discs which includes 192KHz audio. This option isn't immediately coming right up for me. I've gone into the Oppo setup menus and made sure the settings were configured appropriately to accommodate the higher bandwidth... but so far, the W4S DAC2 is not recognizing the 192K sample rate. I do know that the DAC2 is fully capable of handling 192K (as advertised) because I have some of those files downloaded onto my media server, and they play just fine (via the S/PDIF). So, more investigating to do there... but it's not a huge concern since I really just wanted SACD playback at 88.2K to feed to my DAC2... and now I have it!

Cheers