captain_tinker
Well-known member
Hello all,
I am also relatively new to the forum. I've been doing a lot of reading over the past couple months, but haven't posted much. I do not currently own anything by Martin Logan, but I hope to change that at some point. I have a dealer here in town that sells Martin Logans, but up until a few months ago, I never did hear them. Here is the story really quickly, then I have several questions. I am not sure if I should put each of them in a separate thread or just go for it.
Anyway, I went in to audition some subwoofers. The guy there had a hard time getting them to work, partly because someone else had disconnected some things, and he didn't know about it. Anyway, he was going to show me the monster-ish ML Descent I think it was, the really big one anyway. He couldnt' get it going, but there were some speakers attached that started playing (found out later that they were the Summits) and this amazing thing happened. I couldn't figure out where the sound was coming from! It sounded like it was coming from the front right corner of the room, but I looked and there were no speakers there! I thought, what the heck is going on here? So I asked, which of these three speakers here is the sound coming from? I could not tell. He pointed to the Summits, and I walked back a few steps, and there it was again... The sound was all around me! I had never experienced a phenomenon like that before at all! It was one of the neatest things I have ever heard! Though the sound of the cd that was playing was not that impressive, the way it filled the room was amazing! I thought, man I could never afford anything like that, and with a wife that would probably kill me if I ever brought something like that into the house, I figured owell... Nevermind.
But because of this, I started to look at the ML website, and found that they had some cheaper priced speakers, some with the electrostatic, and some with the ATF (Mosaics). So I called them back and found that they had the Mosaics in house. So I figured that based on the price point, I would audition another speaker about the same price with it, and do an A-B. I chose the Paradigm Studio 60. The salesman brought both in, set them up side by side, and plugged them in, and popped in my CD I had put together for the test. For some of the songs, I could barely tell the difference between them, they both sounded awesome! Very clear, very detailed. I thought the Mosaics sounded just a bit bass shy, but in retrospect that may have just been less boomyness too. Of course a good subwoofer would fix that in a hurry anyway. So no problem there. But then I thought as I listened to it more, that the Paradigms sounded like some of the frequencies were being piped through a cardboard tube. I don't know how to really describe the sound other than that. But it became quite obvious once I was able to put my finger on it. I then wanted to hear the Summits again and see if I could hear that same phenomenon again. They had moved things around in the room a bit, and I just didn't hear it again the way I had the first time. I have to admit I was disappointed.
Then after having found this site, I began to understand that maybe they had just moved the Summits out of the place they were in before, or somehow the furniture in the room being moved may have made a difference too. So that could account for that. But it also illustrated just how sensitive to placement these things can be. So that brings me to my other questions. I have heard some very pro things about these speakers, but also some very con things. I am just trying to understand them so I can make a good decision once I am able to save the money to buy them. I would like to spend UNDER $2000, since I don't think I could justify any more than that. My wife already freaked out when I bought my current Paradigm Titan's for $250 a pair. Though, those have proved to be VERY nice speakers. I may end up using them temporarily for rear speakers if I am able to buy some ML floorstanders for the fronts.
I am looking at both the Clarity and the Mosaic. I know that both use a cone woofer, but one uses the actual electrostat panel and the other uses the ATF tweeter and midrange driver. I have not yet had a chance to listen to the Clarity's yet, though I know the dealer has some.
If it helps, I believe I listen to about 80% music and 20% movies/HT. I have some DVD-A's and SACD's. I just don't have surround yet. My receiver is a Marantz SR5600, but I do not yet have an Amp. It can do 90 wpc into 8 ohms, and can go down as far as 6 ohms, at least according to the marking on the back of the unit. It says "Minimum 6 ohms".
I also know that size of room and placement is critical, so here some sample measurements. The living room is about 15 feet wide and 30 feet long. The oak entertainment center is on the wall at the far end with the couch about 8 to 9 feet back from it. The entertainment center is about 8 feet wide from side to side, and from the back wall to the front of the unit is about 1 and a half to 2 feet. The wife will not allow any speakers to be much more than an inch or two forward from the unit. The left side has an opening in the wall going into a hallway, the right side has a window on the right wall, right at the corner. This is about 3 to 4 feet from the edge of the entertainment center. Behind the couch is a partly walled off kitchen. There is a door, and also a large window going into the kitchen from the living room/dining area behind the couch.
1.) what are the main differences between the mosaic and the clarity? Besides the obvious, one using an esl panel and the other using the ATF. I am looking at quality of sound, sound field, ease of positioning etc. Would the area I have to work with allow either of those to work properly?
2.) I have also heard that an electrostat panel can arc with static electricity sometimes, and that it attracts dust like mad and has to be constantly cleaned with a special cloth, and only after being discharged. Is this true, and if so, please shed some light on it with some details. I ask that because I touched the Summits face as they were playing, and nothing happened to me. So if my wife were to use a swiffer on them, would that be a bad thing?
I guess those are my main questions right now, I will post more if I think of any more. Oops, just noticed how much I typed. Sorry for the long post!!!
-capT
I am also relatively new to the forum. I've been doing a lot of reading over the past couple months, but haven't posted much. I do not currently own anything by Martin Logan, but I hope to change that at some point. I have a dealer here in town that sells Martin Logans, but up until a few months ago, I never did hear them. Here is the story really quickly, then I have several questions. I am not sure if I should put each of them in a separate thread or just go for it.
Anyway, I went in to audition some subwoofers. The guy there had a hard time getting them to work, partly because someone else had disconnected some things, and he didn't know about it. Anyway, he was going to show me the monster-ish ML Descent I think it was, the really big one anyway. He couldnt' get it going, but there were some speakers attached that started playing (found out later that they were the Summits) and this amazing thing happened. I couldn't figure out where the sound was coming from! It sounded like it was coming from the front right corner of the room, but I looked and there were no speakers there! I thought, what the heck is going on here? So I asked, which of these three speakers here is the sound coming from? I could not tell. He pointed to the Summits, and I walked back a few steps, and there it was again... The sound was all around me! I had never experienced a phenomenon like that before at all! It was one of the neatest things I have ever heard! Though the sound of the cd that was playing was not that impressive, the way it filled the room was amazing! I thought, man I could never afford anything like that, and with a wife that would probably kill me if I ever brought something like that into the house, I figured owell... Nevermind.
But because of this, I started to look at the ML website, and found that they had some cheaper priced speakers, some with the electrostatic, and some with the ATF (Mosaics). So I called them back and found that they had the Mosaics in house. So I figured that based on the price point, I would audition another speaker about the same price with it, and do an A-B. I chose the Paradigm Studio 60. The salesman brought both in, set them up side by side, and plugged them in, and popped in my CD I had put together for the test. For some of the songs, I could barely tell the difference between them, they both sounded awesome! Very clear, very detailed. I thought the Mosaics sounded just a bit bass shy, but in retrospect that may have just been less boomyness too. Of course a good subwoofer would fix that in a hurry anyway. So no problem there. But then I thought as I listened to it more, that the Paradigms sounded like some of the frequencies were being piped through a cardboard tube. I don't know how to really describe the sound other than that. But it became quite obvious once I was able to put my finger on it. I then wanted to hear the Summits again and see if I could hear that same phenomenon again. They had moved things around in the room a bit, and I just didn't hear it again the way I had the first time. I have to admit I was disappointed.
Then after having found this site, I began to understand that maybe they had just moved the Summits out of the place they were in before, or somehow the furniture in the room being moved may have made a difference too. So that could account for that. But it also illustrated just how sensitive to placement these things can be. So that brings me to my other questions. I have heard some very pro things about these speakers, but also some very con things. I am just trying to understand them so I can make a good decision once I am able to save the money to buy them. I would like to spend UNDER $2000, since I don't think I could justify any more than that. My wife already freaked out when I bought my current Paradigm Titan's for $250 a pair. Though, those have proved to be VERY nice speakers. I may end up using them temporarily for rear speakers if I am able to buy some ML floorstanders for the fronts.
I am looking at both the Clarity and the Mosaic. I know that both use a cone woofer, but one uses the actual electrostat panel and the other uses the ATF tweeter and midrange driver. I have not yet had a chance to listen to the Clarity's yet, though I know the dealer has some.
If it helps, I believe I listen to about 80% music and 20% movies/HT. I have some DVD-A's and SACD's. I just don't have surround yet. My receiver is a Marantz SR5600, but I do not yet have an Amp. It can do 90 wpc into 8 ohms, and can go down as far as 6 ohms, at least according to the marking on the back of the unit. It says "Minimum 6 ohms".
I also know that size of room and placement is critical, so here some sample measurements. The living room is about 15 feet wide and 30 feet long. The oak entertainment center is on the wall at the far end with the couch about 8 to 9 feet back from it. The entertainment center is about 8 feet wide from side to side, and from the back wall to the front of the unit is about 1 and a half to 2 feet. The wife will not allow any speakers to be much more than an inch or two forward from the unit. The left side has an opening in the wall going into a hallway, the right side has a window on the right wall, right at the corner. This is about 3 to 4 feet from the edge of the entertainment center. Behind the couch is a partly walled off kitchen. There is a door, and also a large window going into the kitchen from the living room/dining area behind the couch.
1.) what are the main differences between the mosaic and the clarity? Besides the obvious, one using an esl panel and the other using the ATF. I am looking at quality of sound, sound field, ease of positioning etc. Would the area I have to work with allow either of those to work properly?
2.) I have also heard that an electrostat panel can arc with static electricity sometimes, and that it attracts dust like mad and has to be constantly cleaned with a special cloth, and only after being discharged. Is this true, and if so, please shed some light on it with some details. I ask that because I touched the Summits face as they were playing, and nothing happened to me. So if my wife were to use a swiffer on them, would that be a bad thing?
I guess those are my main questions right now, I will post more if I think of any more. Oops, just noticed how much I typed. Sorry for the long post!!!
-capT