do ML electrostats go well with Linn/McIntosh amps?

[BillPA]

Hi all!

I have to admit: I am brand new to the world of Martin Logan.
Before I fully dive in I want to do some research and wonder if the electrostats (like Vista) mate well with Linn amps. I have the Linn Klimax Twin (2x200W, stable at low loads) and an Akurate 2200 (2x200W, stable). Can anybody tell me how these Scottish amps might sound with ML electrostats?
In my main room I could pair the ML speakers with a pair of McIntosh MC501 mono blocks. Has anybody experience with these amps and ML speakers?

So please don't be shy and tell me what you think... I don't want to get other amps... just some new speakers.

Happy new year!

 

[Zero]

The short answer is: yep!! They (McIntosh and Logans) go together splendidly!

In fact, I believe ML uses McIntosh products at their facility in the demo room!

 

[taylode]

Hi all!

I have to admit: I am brand new to the world of Martin Logan.
Before I fully dive in I want to do some research and wonder if the electrostats (like Vista) mate well with Linn amps. I have the Linn Klimax Twin (2x200W, stable at low loads) and an Akurate 2200 (2x200W, stable). Can anybody tell me how these Scottish amps might sound with ML electrostats?
In my main room I could pair the ML speakers with a pair of McIntosh MC501 mono blocks. Has anybody experience with these amps and ML speakers?

So please don't be shy and tell me what you think... I don't want to get other amps... just some new speakers.

Happy new year!

Yup I've got experience with the 501s. I think they're an exceptional amp and many would consider them (I know I do) as McIntosh's best amp for the money. And, with the ability to handle bursts up to 1000W are capable of driving virtually any speaker with authority. You will not be disappointed with a pair of MC501s.

 

[Gordon]

I can't comment on your first two choices but I can the third.

I have the 501's connected to the Spire on the 4 Ohm tap. While I've never tried to blow the windows out of the room, I've pushed it hard a couple of times. The amps remained stable and never hit the PowerGuard. I'm not certain what it would do on the 8/2 Ohm tap since I like the sound on the 4.

I listen to music about 3-4 hours a day. Some background and some serious listening. I've never felt any fatigue and could listen longer if I didn't have to work.

I think the 501 is a smooth amp top to bottom. It does not appear to highlight any frequency and is clear and accurate. I had a 352 before and the 501's enhanced the stage width and depth leaps and bounds over the 352.

If you any any specific question, fire away.

Gordon

 

[ALTMAN]

Actually I have experience with both lines of amps. The McIntosh will be a bit easier to listen to than the new gen Linn amps. The new gen Linn amps will tend to run hot but for any given power rating they will seem to have more power than the McIntosh.

I would not choose the Linn preamps with the Linn amps on Martin Logan speakers, you'll lose the magic and the sound will tend to a bit more intensity.

On the other hand a pre like that found on the MX119 and a McIntosh amp is lacking in terms of its ability to communicate music. The Martin Logans will immediately lay bare all the faults of the MX119.

I noticed a few of the folks here have the C2200 vs. the MX119 on ML --- to my ears the C2200 moves things up considerably, but die hard Mc-philes including the local dealer say the C2200 isnt really better than the preamp in the MX119 --- I dont hear it that way.

BTW I think it is hilarious that you are actually comparing one of the most underated amps with one of the more fairly rated amps. In the real world a Klimax twin will run a B&W 801 speaker at levels that would tend to cause an MC501 to light up like a Xmas tree. It will also control the bass without a hint of midbass fullness that does not appear in the original programme material.

 

[BillPA]

Actually I have experience with both lines of amps. The McIntosh will be a bit easier to listen to than the new gen Linn amps. The new gen Linn amps will tend to run hot but for any given power rating they will seem to have more power than the McIntosh.

I would not choose the Linn preamps with the Linn amps on Martin Logan speakers, you'll lose the magic and the sound will tend to a bit more intensity.

On the other hand a pre like that found on the MX119 and a McIntosh amp is lacking in terms of its ability to communicate music. The Martin Logans will immediately lay bare all the faults of the MX119.

I noticed a few of the folks here have the C2200 vs. the MX119 on ML --- to my ears the C2200 moves things up considerably, but die hard Mc-philes including the local dealer say the C2200 isnt really better than the preamp in the MX119 --- I dont hear it that way.

BTW I think it is hilarious that you are actually comparing one of the most underated amps with one of the more fairly rated amps. In the real world a Klimax twin will run a B&W 801 speaker at levels that would tend to cause an MC501 to light up like a Xmas tree. It will also control the bass without a hint of midbass fullness that does not appear in the original programme material.

That is a very interesting observation. I guess I will have to see what combination sounds best to my ears.

Yes, I noticed that the MCs tend to make the bass more blooomy than the Linn amps, which are tighter and dryer (at least with Linn speakers).

BTW: the pre-amps are the C500P/C with the MC501s, the Akurate Kontrol with the Akurate 2200 power amp and the Klimax Kontrol with the Klimax Twin = many combinations to play with.

Any idea which ML I should use as my first one? I don't want to start with models breaking the bank to get a taste. Which one offers the best value for the money?

 

[ALTMAN]

I'm thinking a set of Spires is in the cards for you...

Happy new year...


I'll add someone like TONEPUB has much more exposure to the full range of ML so hopefully he'll weigh in...

I really value his opinion though I disagree with virtually everything he writes.:ROFL:

 

[tonepub]

If you don't want to break the bank, think about a pair of used Vantages that someone is trading in to get a bigger pair of ML's....

Linn is one of the few lines of electronics I've had no experience with other than the LP-12 table, so can't comment there.

As for McIntosh, I prefer the Solid State Macs to the tube gear on current ML product, though there are plenty that will argue that the MC275 is an amazing combination. We currently have an MC252 in for review that is a very good match.

Seeing the Linn amps are so small and compact, why not just ask you dealer if you could bring your amp in for a demo? That would probably be a lot easier than lugging a pair of ML's home...

 

[BillPA]

Seeing the Linn amps are so small and compact, why not just ask you dealer if you could bring your amp in for a demo? That would probably be a lot easier than lugging a pair of ML's home...

Hahahaha... that's the idea. I just want to make sure that I do my homework before showing up at the dealer with the Linn under the arm.

One thing is for sure: I cannot wait to hear for myself what everybody here is raving about. I never considered electrostats after my first encounter 20 years ago because the older models were so huge. But now that I looked into it again I noticed that there are actually electrostats out there which do not fill the room... lol They are not wider or deeper than my Linn speakers, just a little taller!

 

[Gordon]

It will also control the bass without a hint of midbass fullness that does not appear in the original programme material.

Maybe you can educate me here. If we are using current ML products, i.e. Vantage, Spire, Summit, wouldn't midbass (40-80 Hz) be a product of and controlled by the speakers internal amp? I had thought that early models without internal amps the mid bass would be impacted by amplifiers.

If I've got this wrong , please tell me because I'd like to know.

Gordon

 

[BillPA]

Maybe you can educate me here. If we are using current ML products, i.e. Vantage, Spire, Summit, wouldn't midbass (40-80 Hz) be a product of and controlled by the speakers internal amp? I had thought that early models without internal amps the mid bass would be impacted by amplifiers.

If I've got this wrong , please tell me because I'd like to know.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

Happy New Year!
Well, to answer your question: The amps int he ML speakers can only amplify the signal they get from the power amp up the chain.
So if the power amp is not linear in certain frequency areas, if it tends to overemphasize certain musical characteristics, if has this "hint of midbass fullness" (to quote Altman), then the ML amplifier will replicate exactly this midbass fullness too (if it works reasonably neutral). But the ML internal amps do not correct the signal they receive.

 

[taylode]

Hi Gordon,

Happy New Year!
Well, to answer your question: The amps int he ML speakers can only amplify the signal they get from the power amp up the chain.
So if the power amp is not linear in certain frequency areas, if it tends to overemphasize certain musical characteristics, if has this "hint of midbass fullness" (to quote Altman), then the ML amplifier will replicate exactly this midbass fullness too (if it works reasonably neutral). But the ML internal amps do not correct the signal they receive.

Well that makes sense; however, I would look at the source recording or the ML's hybrid design for any mid-base bloat. Personally, on well recorded material I find the base just about right. On recordings that aren't so good then not so much. Martin Logan and McIntosh, at least to me and ML, make an excellent combination. :rocker:

 

[ALTMAN]

I understand how McIntosh can be a religion with some folks but a hint of midbass fullness doe not equate to bloat. The fullness is not based upon poor control of sources as I used a customized Studer a700 with Mark Levinson electronics and a Linn CD12 with material where I was present during the mastering process.

And to reiterate, I own both Linn and McIntosh so I'm not (as they say in the securities business) "talking my own book".

Now I understand that it would be the nature of McIntosh faithful to say what a deficient CD player a CD12 really is but I rather like it...

Furthermore an A700 is a tape recorder and will not have perfect low freq response but this is where the Levinson electronics shine...it too is fairly neutral.

Personally I thought it was reasonable for me to answer the question honestly relative to what I hear given that it appears I'm one of the only people here who own Linn and McIntosh. The two have very different strengths and weaknesses and I'm sorry I was not clear at explaining them.

If Bill merely wanted the McIntosh is perfect with any speaker answer he probably would have posted on the McIntosh forum.

 

[Gordon]

ALTMAN,

I think your first post giving your impression to BillPA was spot on and informative to me. By no means am I McIntosh "zealot" even though my signature may imply otherwise.

I especially liked your last sentence posted on Saturday at 2:16!!

Gordon

 

[Gordon]

Thanks BillPA,

Your explanation was in line with what I thought. While I have no complaint with the ML's, I still wonder if the ML amps are neutral enough to relay an unmolested signal.

Gordon

Hi Gordon,

Happy New Year!
Well, to answer your question: The amps int he ML speakers can only amplify the signal they get from the power amp up the chain.
So if the power amp is not linear in certain frequency areas, if it tends to overemphasize certain musical characteristics, if has this "hint of midbass fullness" (to quote Altman), then the ML amplifier will replicate exactly this midbass fullness too (if it works reasonably neutral). But the ML internal amps do not correct the signal they receive.