Connecting two 8008BB to a SL3; is it worth it ?

[planckscale]

I am looking to improve my setup (see my system on my sign), using the Aragon family of amps. Basically, I am thinking of bi-amping my existing 8008BB with either another 8008BB, or a 4004 MKII. I have read that the Palladium monos are basically a bridged 8008BBs, so am hoping to achieve similar results, if not the same sonic qualities.

Being in Tanzania, I don’t have the luxury for trials and errors. Therefore, I would rather stick with the brand that has so far worked for me.

Has anybody done this and liked the result?

Thx

 

[roberto]

Hola. The 8008 is like a newer version of the 4004. As I recall, the model came out in around 95s. I will use it with no problem, it was a very good built power amplifier, so stick with it! You will nor harm the panels, but you could blow their woofers due to the high power that you will get in bridge mode. Remember this, you are searching for quality watts, not quantity watts. If you bridge them, you will get almost double of their specs with a little more headroom. If your listening level is below than 95dB and peaks around 105db,(very high level) I do not see any reason why you can not use it in bridge mode. If you can try it before there in Tanzania, them you are safe to make the buy. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[planckscale]

Hola... If you bridge them, you will get almost double of their specs with a little more headroom. If your listening level is below than 95dB and peaks around 105db,(very high level) I do not see any reason why you can not use it in bridge mode. ...Roberto.

Thanks for the response. I am thinking more on the passive biamping...and hope that the SL3 will sing better with the 26 (or so) watts of class-A being delivered direct to the panels, and also giving the cone drivers get their own dedicated 26w.

I have also red that the 4004 II has better mid-range performance than the 8008BB, so the question is whether it will be better to put the 4004 to drive the panels and let the 8008 drive the woofers?

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
The 8008bb is one of my favorite all time Amplifiers and I have owned one for around a decade. If you had the 8008ST, it might be worth using 2, but with the bb, I really do not think you need an additional one. If you have a huge Room, that might justify it.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[planckscale]

Hello,
The 8008bb is one of my favorite all time Amplifiers and I have owned one for around a decade. If you had the 8008ST, it might be worth using 2, but with the bb, I really do not think you need an additional one. If you have a huge Room, that might justify it.
Cheers,
JJ

Thanks for the comment. My room is 4m wide x 7m long and x 3m high (14'x23'x10') - an average room, I suppose. I am trying to get better separation of the instruments on my system …am hoping biamping will help with. Since Aragon runs as a Class A amp upto 26 watts, I therefore hope that doubling this wattage on each speaker will improve the overall sound quality.??

Am also planning to upgrade my current preamp (the Aurum) to either a Bryston BP25 or the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1. My research tells me that one of these will have good synergy with the Aragon. BTW, the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 has a single tube on the signal path...

Your thoughts, please.

 

[Spike]

Lots of choices

First, let me start out stating that the Aragon 8008BB is very musical, and it's one of my favorite amp for driving the Logans. I think you've just answered your question by mentioning that you want "more separation". The safest bet will be to "vertically" bi-amp your speakers, meaning, one BB for each speaker where one channel drives the panel, and the other channel driving the woofer.

When you said that you want to "improve on overall sound quality", what is it that you've found lacking with the 8008BB + SL3 combination? You've mentioned a preference for "Class A" a couple of times, so why not look for a full Class-A amplifier for the panels. Pass Labs, Plinius, and Krell readily come to mind. There are countless others on the list, but these are the "safe" ones where lots of members here can vouch for.

I should also mention that the 8008BB is no slouch and it's not easy to improve upon unless you're going down the full class-A or tube route for the panels.

Good Luck,
Spike

 

[2beornot2bop]

according to the ML manual that came with your SL3's

it's always best to biamp a hybrid speaker for the woofers rob a single amp of so much power. IMHO, I've always achieved superior results by biamping a ML hybrid. If you can afford it by all means go for it. I've seen used 8008BB's as low as $850 the past 6 months on AG.

Good luck!

 

[PartTimeJedi]

I have never bi-amped my SL3s, but I found a very major improvement in using a single mono amp and true-birwire (you can see pics in my system). The cable has to be of good quality. I found the panel before, was a little thin sounding on single wire with jumpers, now images are solid etc. Since the pics I have now updated to a pair of Quests where I get more of everything.

 

[planckscale]

Spike and 2beornot2bop, Thanks. That is the positive reinforcement I am looking for, I guess??

Have been looking for cheaper upgrade path for my system, and hence bi-amping the 8008BB seems like the economical way to go, without an all out Class A amp upgrade.
My brother recently upgraded his Sunfire Signature Cinema grand to a Macitosh MC252 (driving the Maggie1.6) and the instrumental separation was just amazing!

I currently have a tube-DAC (MHDT Paradisea), so adding a tubed preamp - the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 should make the sound even better, without being too tubby, that is my thinking. I am not a tube guy, buy I am tube-curious


Your thoughts, please.

 

[planckscale]

I have never bi-amped my SL3s, but I found a very major improvement in using a single mono amp and true-birwire (you can see pics in my system). The cable has to be of good quality. I found the panel before, was a little thin sounding on single wire with jumpers, now images are solid etc. Since the pics I have now updated to a pair of Quests where I get more of everything.

Thanks for the input. Too bad the 8008BB cannot be bridged to a mono setup (so I have heard!). But running y-splitters on the interconnects so that each channel is driven by its own 8008BB could be interesting …I need to do more research on this as it may affect the impedance load on speaker/amplifiers

 

[Spike]

Too bad the 8008BB cannot be bridged to a mono setup (so I have heard!). But running y-splitters on the interconnects so that each channel is driven by its own 8008BB could be interesting

NO! NO!! bi-wiring is a BIG step backward if you have to bend over backward with y-splitters just to accommodate for bi-wiring. Assuming that you have 2 8008BBs, you'll be much better off with vertical bi-amping with each 8008BB handling one SL3.

Looking again at your Aragon system, it's an excellent system and the Aurum preamp is a good, transparent unit. Moving from the Aurum to the Bryston or Sonic Frontier is a step backward. Let's start again with a description of what you've found lacking in your system and what you're looking for with "upgrading" your components.

One item which looks to be out-of-place is the Paradisea DAC. They are using the TDA 1545 DAC chip in a non-oversampling design, followed by opamp with a tube buffer. Yikes!! As I understand it, non-oversampling with 1545 DAC is not simple and it is heavily dependent on the quality of the output stage. To put opamp, with a tube buffer just raises red-flag that this is a band-aid solution to address some flaws upstream in the circuitry. If you're mainly using a computer based source, you'll do well to look for the ones based on modern chips like Wolfson, ESS (Sabre), AKM, etc... May I suggest a couple of asynchronous USB DACs from Wyred4Sound (DAC2) and Schiit (BiFrost) to start your list. There are many more, but you'll get the idea after reading up on their design goals.

Good Luck,
Spike

 

[planckscale]

NO! NO!! ... Assuming that you have 2 8008BBs, you'll be much better off with vertical bi-amping with each 8008BB handling one SL3....
Spike

That is what 'am trying to do; bi-amping.
Now, if the amps cannot be bridged, then how do I get these stereo amps to act as mono? That is, one amp driving one speaker/one channel?

I am thinking that feeding one channel (say left channel) from the preamp into both channels of one amp is the solution. and repeat the same for the RIGHT channel.
Help me here...thanks

 

[Bernard]

I am thinking that feeding one channel (say left channel) from the preamp into both channels of one amp is the solution. and repeat the same for the RIGHT channel.
Help me here...thanks

That's the way to do it. Do make sure you get good quality "Y" cables, so you can connect one preamp output to two power inputs (or connect them internally if you are up to soldering).

 

[Spike]

That is what 'am trying to do; bi-amping.
Now, if the amps cannot be bridged, then how do I get these stereo amps to act as mono? That is, one amp driving one speaker/one channel?

I am thinking that feeding one channel (say left channel) from the preamp into both channels of one amp is the solution. and repeat the same for the RIGHT channel.
Help me here...thanks

No need for y-splitters since the Aurum pre-amp has multiple pre-amp outputs. Here's a rough drawing illustrating bi-amping with 2 8008BBs.



Spike

 

[planckscale]

Wow! thanks Spike, Bernard for your information.

 

[planckscale]

Spike, the Paradesia Tube DAC is unbelievable! So that stays.

While the Aurum is well regarded, I am looking to improve the sound a little (or even change the sound, may be). Also I need a remote. Bryston BP25 or the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 selections were suggested by people who have actually used them with the Aragon, hence my interest on them. Come to think of it, I wouldn't have bothered trying to change the Aurum if it had come with a remote control.

 

[2beornot2bop]

No need for y-splitters since the Aurum pre-amp has multiple pre-amp outputs. Here's a rough drawing illustrating bi-amping with 2 8008BBs.

Spike

Nice job Spike!

2b

 

[2beornot2bop]

Spike, the Paradesia Tube DAC is unbelievable! So that stays.

While the Aurum is well regarded, I am looking to improve the sound a little (or even change the sound, may be). Also I need a remote. Bryston BP25 or the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 selections were suggested by people who have actually used them with the Aragon, hence my interest on them. Come to think of it, I wouldn't have bothered trying to change the Aurum if it had come with a remote control.

By yourself a BAT preamp...AG is full of them! I've owned BAT for 15 years and swear buy them.

2b

 

[planckscale]

By yourself a BAT preamp...AG is full of them! I've owned BAT for 15 years and swear buy them.

2b

Sounds interesting...
The key for my search is keeping the synergy with my existing amp. So, can you recommend a
particular version of BAT known to have good synergy with the Aragon?

There is a BAT Preamp in Audiogon right now (Bat VK42-SE), $4500 .
At that price I could buy a PASS LABS x250 and a preamp and reach audio nirvana, guaranteed!
I am working on a $2000 budget on getting another 8008BB and a Preamp...

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
With the 8008bb, I am not even sure that you even need to use 2 of them. The bb Model offers twice the Capacitance of the 8008ST and the ST was no slouch to begin with.
The 8008bb is truly capable of driving any Speaker out there. The Palladium would be even better, but for a 2 Channel Amplifier that does not cost more than a nice Car, I really think there are none finer.
Cheers,
JJ