Connecting ML speakers to power conditioners

[Scumurculum]

I am considering whether to buy a power conditioner for my hi fi system, in particular a Thor PS10 which is a device for Australian conditions.

I am aware that power conditioning can (may) help sound quality if hooked up to electronics.

However is there any benefit hooking up my ML Aeon i's, can conditioning help with the performance of electrostatics.

 

[Kenscollick]

I did notice a difference with My prodigy's when I upgraded the power cords, A little more clarity and defined soundstage, I say it is worth trying, let us know what you think.

 

[MrDerrick]

I tried my PS300 with my CLS's and could not detect any improvement. So I tried powering them from my Cinepro 20 and still heard no improvement. Next I inserted some Versalab Woodblocks into the power chain. There was a marked improvement in clarity! Both of my power conditioners output balanced power and neither make a difference without the Woodblocks in place.

 

[jtwrace]

I agree, I have my ML Summits connected through a Richard Gray 1200 which is pluged into a Richard Gray Substation (240v). My Summits also have Blue Circle BC-68 power cords on them.

You will need to try it for yourself. Power conditioners are very system dependent as well as user dependent.

 

[Pcar928fan]

I agree, I have my ML Summits connected through a Richard Gray 1200 which is pluged into a Richard Gray Substation (240v). My Summits also have Blue Circle BC-68 power cords on them.

Nice to see another RGPC user here...I thought I was the only one... I have the 120V Substation, Pole Pig, and a couple of 400's.

 

[JonFo]

...

However is there any benefit hooking up my ML Aeon i's, can conditioning help with the performance of electrostatics.

Not really, as most of the sonic impact will be from the upstream components. and yes, they will definitely benefit from power conditioning.

With that said, I do run my entire set of 5.1 ML's off of a balanced power transformer. it doesn't hurt, and In the long run, it likely helps.

They use so little power, I'd say do it.

 

[benleeys]

Nice to see another RGPC user here...I thought I was the only one... I have the 120V Substation, Pole Pig, and a couple of 400's.

James,

Shake the woodwork a bit, and you'll find more than 1 RGPC user exposing themselves. I work my system off a 600 and a 400. Makes a world of difference.

 

[Pcar928fan]

James,

Shake the woodwork a bit, and you'll find more than 1 RGPC user exposing themselves. I work my system off a 600 and a 400. Makes a world of difference.

I think it is pretty good gear. I like unique styling and they are different than most of the others out there...at least all the stuff I have Substation, 400's and a Pole pig...the pig is the only thing that looks like "other" stuff.

I would like to add another Substation in the future...no funds right now though for that.

 

[MOON]

I asked this very question to Gilbert Young , owner of Blue Circle. Gilbert uses ML's in evaluating his equipment. This is his response regarding conditioners and ML's

Greg

I am going to answer you question as direct as possible. Don't like to
dance around.

When it comes to Logan, don't use any balanced powerline conditioner.
I mean any kind of balanced powerline conditioner regardless of brand
name, that
including our own Music Ring. If plug the Logans into on of those
thing, it kill the sound. Use only passive filtering like the BC86MKIII,
Music Bar (BC606,
BC608) or the BC68. Plug the BC68 direct to the wall or one of those
passive conditioner but never those balanced thing.

Music Ring does has a current limit. If you want to treat your system
in a most cost effective way. I recommand using a pair of BC68 for the
speaker and a
BC606 for the preamp, power amp and the CD player. If you want a
fancier system and the result can be noticeable. Use a MR800 for the preamp
and the
CD player and then get a BC602 just for the power amp.

Let me know if I can of any further help.

Gilbert

I myself will be adding an unbalanced conditioner in the future and also the BC 68 powercords which have built in conditioning and were made especially for Logans. I will be buying a Torus conditioner in the near future.

 

[JonFo]

^^^

Uhm, I call BS on that reply.

Maybe his units are so horribly current limited they can't support a few milliamps of power, as the ESL circuit board on the ML's hardly pulls a few watts of power.

And no, balanced does not 'kill the sound', I mean come on, the power to the speakers is to energize the stator. It has very little to do with the quality of the sound. If the stator is not energized to a reasonable level, the SPL drops, but there can't be a significant change in the FR of the unit.


I'm staying as far away from that company's products as I can if that's their idea of science.

 

[jjqiv]

^^^

Uhm, I call BS on that reply.

Maybe his units are so horribly current limited they can't support a few milliamps of power, as the ESL circuit board on the ML's hardly pulls a few watts of power.

And no, balanced does not 'kill the sound', I mean come on, the power to the speakers is to energize the stator. It has very little to do with the quality of the sound. If the stator is not energized to a reasonable level, the SPL drops, but there can't be a significant change in the FR of the unit.


I'm staying as far away from that company's products as I can if that's their idea of science.

I can remember Gilbert saying not to use his Music Ring's on ML speakers. However, it was not because of current limitations.

Hey, we need to get Gilbert to post his pink CLS's on the new site! Miss his humor and insight as well! Gillbert, where are you!

 

[MOON]

jjquiv -You are correct, Gilbert wasn't recommending the music ring because they are balanced , not because they couldn't supply the power. An ML speaker only consumes 5 watts of power.

I had remembered seeing Giberts setup at the 2004 Montreal show and had forgotten if the Logans were going into one of his conditioner. He had his BC 68 powercords on them, which many members of this site use. He plugs them directly into the wall.

I plan on buying the unbalanced Torus conditioner AO24 which was reviewed in the Inner Ear mag. I will plug my Oddesseys in and get back to you on this , it will be a couple of more months due to home reno's and then building a dedicated room.

JonFo -Blue Circle make some of the best equipment going, don't limit yourself and maybe check out those BC 68 powercords that he makes for Martin Logans which you can find under power line conditioners atwww.bluecircle.com I think you failed to see that Gilbert didn't only not recommend his balanced conditioners, it was any brand of balanced conditioner, be it Equitech, or any other brand.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Blue Circle make some of the best equipment going, don't limit yourself and maybe check out those BC 68 powercords that he makes for Martin Logans which you can find under power line conditioners atwww.bluecircle.com I think you failed to see that Gilbert didn't only not recommend his balanced conditioners, it was any brand of balanced conditioner, be it Equitech, or any other brand.

At $400 a hit on SEVEN speakers, uh, NO, I don't think soooo...

 

[MOON]

Since when did the audio habit not cost??Anyway, the powercords would be great for your main ML's. Did you happen to read the reviews of the ml owners?

 

[roberto]

Since when did the audio habit not cost??Anyway, the powercords would be great for your main ML's. Did you happen to read the reviews of the ml owners?

Hola...I live in an area full of industries here in Costa Rica, and my mains A.C. line is very dirty. I use a Panamax 5500ex with outstanding results...perhaps this might help to some of you. You can tell the differece without it or with it easelly. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Rich]

The ML speaker power cord does nothing but power the charge on the stator. I personally fail to see how it could possibly alter the sound of the speaker to have a custom power cord from the wall romex to the speaker, (especially $400 a cord worth of difference). Nor have I noticed any difference in the sound of my Ascents when they were plugged into my P.S. Audio Power Director vs. being plugged directly into the wall. If it makes you enjoy your system that much more to spend the bucks on those power cords, then have at it. Personally, I would put that money toward more music or a source upgrade or room treatments or something else that would be more likely (in my humble opinion) to have a real impact on the sound. Just my 2 cents.

 

[JonFo]

..

JonFo -Blue Circle make some of the best equipment going, don't limit yourself and maybe check out those BC 68 powercords that he makes for Martin Logans which you can find under power line conditioners atwww.bluecircle.com I think you failed to see that Gilbert didn't only not recommend his balanced conditioners, it was any brand of balanced conditioner, be it Equitech, or any other brand.

And I still don't get why he would not recommend balanced for an ESL. Makes no sense. If someone could explain the technical reasons for that, I'd be interested.

But unless there is something about the physics of AC I'm missing, I still say balanced AC is perfectly fine. In my rig, everything was better after switching to balanced.

Also, I did read about the BC68 cord, and my take-away is it’s a power cord with built in filtering. No harm if you’re using on a regular unbalanced AC. Of no real value in a balanced rig with good filters upstream IMHO.

Now, mixing and matching power conditioning across the rig is not a good idea in my book. Either go all balanced or not.
This is why my speakers run on balanced and sound great. Any qualitative difference is primarily due to just having very stable voltage and current reserves (I run off a 5Kva Equitech).


Finally, please realize the stator charge is supplied by a high voltage step up process that is driven by DC current. So balanced AC or not, step one is to get DC, then boost that to the 3 to 5Kv the stators need.

The real benefits of clean AC is that the drive circuitry can operate with a more stable output. But if they have decent regulation on the EHT circuit, then even that might be moot.

 

[benleeys]

I think it is pretty good gear. I like unique styling and they are different than most of the others out there...at least all the stuff I have Substation, 400's and a Pole pig...the pig is the only thing that looks like "other" stuff.

I would like to add another Substation in the future...no funds right now though for that.

James,

It's not so much the unique styling as the different technology that is offered by the RGPCs. Unlike most conditioners, its parallel connection to the system does not limit current draw, especially with big power hungry amps. I am considering a Substation at the moment.

A question - do you encounter RF interference in your system from appliances around the house? I know it's airborne, and the Substation isolates your system, but is it any help in this respect. My system 'pops' everytime the aircon cuts in/out, or the flourescent lamps are switched. Even my electric screen contributes to the problem. My Denon DVD player mutes for a second or two instead of 'popping'!

 

[Pcar928fan]

A question - do you encounter RF interference in your system from appliances around the house? I know it's airborne, and the Substation isolates your system, but is it any help in this respect. My system 'pops' everytime the aircon cuts in/out, or the flourescent lamps are switched. Even my electric screen contributes to the problem. My Denon DVD player mutes for a second or two instead of 'popping'!

I agree from what I have read that RGPC has a different way of working their majic. I have never had any kind of popping problem before or since the RGPC gear, so I can't comment on if that would be helpful. If I turn on my sub first and then turn on the power amps (w/ the Pre/pro OFF) the sub will "thump" with each of the three power amps coming on line. They are all plugged into the same Substation...

 

[benleeys]

If I turn on my sub first and then turn on the power amps (w/ the Pre/pro OFF) the sub will "thump" with each of the three power amps coming on line. They are all plugged into the same Substation...

The 'thump' comes from the surge when the power amps are turned on. Some amps have a special circuit to delay connection to the speakers to prevent the 'thump'. As a matter of fact, the Summit self-powered base units do 'thump' when the power supply is switched on.

I remember during the early years of hi-fi, I had this Harmon Kardon Citation 12 powering a pair of 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds. When switching on, I used to watch in anxious facination at the slow deep cone excursions, taichi like. Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and rigged up a device to delay connection to the speakers by about 10 seconds.