Clx vs clsiiz

[roberto]

Hola. My room is small,( 12'X14') but I have a pair of CLXs now, and right now I can conclude that are totally different in many aspects.

1) Bass. I do not have with me a sweep generator that I can messure the frequency response of them in my room, but I can say the CLXs have tons of low frequency bottom that the CLSs lack (at least in my room). It takes a little more time to adjust their stage presentation, because some notes are too big (problem due to my room resonance) or I was used to those resonances with my CLSs. The CLSs are a very magic speaker. I spent with the model 23 years and had all the models until the last one, the CLSIIZ. If something at the recording is wrong, the CLSIIZ will show up this, right away! Also the CLSs are for playing not too loud. Well, they can play loud, but your amplifier starts to suffer. The CLSIIz demands a lot of power to stay clean. With the CLXs you can play louder and bigger, and you can use small amplifiers due to their high sensitivity. The CLXs sound is more dynamic and exhibits the same transparency that the CLSs also have.

2) I am using a Depth I with the CLXs, the very low frequency is not present (same as the CLSs) I do recommend the use of a good sub with any if you like the very low notes of a pipe organ.

3) The CLXs are ment to play louder with a nice volume, near the unplugged concert with non electronic musical instruments. The piano is one of the instruments that shines with both speakers, but the CLXs are more real, there are more harmonic texture overall...the piano sings for you more dramatic, more palpable and it is very easy to listen the difference between muscial arrangements and different piano players playing the same song.

4) Now I am getting a true 3D with my CLXs, same as I got with the CLSs. But because they allow you to play louder without any stress or saturation of your amplfier, big orchestras are played with oustanding clarity. Just listen Malher Symphony No. 2. There is no congestion over all, that I did have before.

5) The new stat panel projects the highs different, so room treatment is a must too. Summing-up, I am very happy with my new toys. I am listening and re-discovering musical experiences that I did not have before. Jazz combos and small orchestras are played very life like.

Do you have the same experiences that I had? I would like to learn from your conclusions...I wish you a very happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Bernard]

Roberto, you say that your room is small, but don't specify how small, so.....how small?

BTW Roberto, would you please edit your post to break it up into paragraphs as it is very difficult to read as is.

 

[roberto]

Hola. Thanks for your understanding. My room is 14'X12". Please read it again. There are so many ideas that I can not say them right. Thanks for your patience and understanding my friends...happy listening,
R.

 

[Bernard]

Roberto, thanks for making the change. How about some pictures so that we have some idea about the layout?

 

[roberto]

I will do my best for them... My system right now is as follows: Front CLXs, center Motif, Rear Sonus Fiber Electa. Front amplifier for CLXs: Audio Research VT-100 MKII, center: Perreaux PMF 1150B bridge mode and rear: McIntosch 2105 (was my dad's amp). Audio and Video Controller: Onkyo Pro PR-SC886. CD transport: Proceed PDT2. Antijitter: Sonic Frontiers Ultrajitterbug, Digital processor: Proceed PDP2. Oppo dvd player model BDP-83. Digital cables: Kimber silver; Audio interconnect cables: Harmonic Tech Truth-Link Prosilkway 1.5Meters long. Speaker cables: Nordost Blue Heaven for the CLXs, and Audio Quest for the others. Also I use a harmonic recovery system between the output of the L & R front. When I do critical listening, I use a
Benchmarkmedia model DAC1PRE. Also it is my digital processor for critical listening. Also I use a lot of Mpingo discs around. I will post a pic soon...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[roberto]

L] This is my system...Roberto

 

[ronjor]

Thanks for the photo Roberto. You may have to get a bigger place soon.

 

[Bernard]

Yeah, thanks for the photo. Seeing that I can't help but wonder: if you have a small space, which of the two is a better arrangement - speakers far apart but close to the side walls, or speakers closer together but far from the side walls? Which configuration makes for easier room treatment? This would be a great question for Jim Smith, but I have not seen him post here recently. I may well PM him to see if he is interesting in posting.

 

[Jim Smith]

Thanks for the heads up, Bernard.

To date I've not heard a better speaker combo, although I'm not a huge fan of the soundstage-collapsing effects of a single sub.

The first thing I'd do if I were voicing this system would be to put the audio components on a side wall. Get them away from between your speakers. This effect is not subtle. If you do this Roberto, I think you'll be amazed at the overall improvement in your sound.

I say - probably too often - that listening to music should feel as if the musician(s) have packed up their equipment to perform in your room, unless it's an acoustic recording of a big ensemble, and then it should feel as if you are in the venue, almost like you can feel the air move in the hall.

There should be no sense of walls, ceiling, or speakers. Moving that rack wil go a long way towards accomplishing that goal.

When people say, "Well I've got $3,000 speaker cables and they won't reach from the side, I always reply - "Put those cables in a closet. Go to your local hardware store and buy some 16 gauge lamp cord. Wire your speakers up with that. See if you want to move the rack back to the middle again." No one has EVER wanted to go back. That does not mean that I don't think cables make a difference - they do - BUT ...

Worrying about the effects of electrons moving through wire or components is miniscule compared to the effect of addressing the acoustic wave launch and reception in your room.

OK, I'll get off the soapbox now.

Good luck, Roberto!

 

[Jim Smith]

Yeah, thanks for the photo. Seeing that I can't help but wonder: if you have a small space, which of the two is a better arrangement - speakers far apart but close to the side walls, or speakers closer together but far from the side walls? Which configuration makes for easier room treatment? This would be a great question for Jim Smith, but I have not seen him post here recently. I may well PM him to see if he is interesting in posting.

If you mean sit on the long wall, the only issue I've had with the CLS speakers is if you get to close to them, the tweeter becomes harder to integrate with the mid-bass.

But if you mean with his existing configuration, with the tweeters on the inside, since they are the source of directionality, it may be problematic to get them too close to one another.

One good thing about planar speakers is that they can go a little closer to side walls, due to the rear wave cancellation (as long as the tweeter isn't on the outside).

Either way with Roberto's existing configuration, it'll be especially nice when the cabinet is moved to the side.

 

[amey01]

Nice to see your system finally! Looks great!

 

[Bernard]

Thanks Jim. Your second answer was just what I was looking for.

 

[roberto]

Thanks for your kind answers... well I have four spanish guitars that are not seeing, but they are tuned at A=440Hz. So by sympathetic resonances, when the music is playing, makes them to sing along... and I am getting very nice harmonic texture with this kind of tweak. The micro-dynamics are awesome. Also I have Mpingo sextet. I will try all your recommendations and will tell you how they go...The truth is, I do like a lot what I am listening now. I have a very small room, but it is my room...no wife around unless she wants to be with me... it is my place and my sanctuary. I spend hours of listening pleasure... Again, thank you a lot!!! happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Bernard]

Roberto, it sounds like we do not have to wish you happy listening as you already seem to be doing that.

One suggestion (it's always easy to suggest stuff in someone else's space, so I beg your forgiveness) - since it's just you in the room, why not get rid of the couch on the right or move it to the listening position (for togetherness when your wife is there?), and move the equipment rack to where the couch is now. Also, getting rid of the coffee table might be an idea.

How does the system sound without the sub turned on?

 

[roberto]

I will send another pics of my room...then you will find out why I have it this way...thanks for your help!!!
Warm regards from Costa Rica,
R.

 

[roberto]

I was an electric bass player when I had my combo some time ago. So, the bass sound is still in my head. I am using only the sub for just the very low frequency info that the CLXs lack. The volume level knob is pointing 2.8 and the 25Hz is at -2dBs. No big deal with the sub...just bearly can listen it, but when the music has those big deep lows, the sub acts...thanks for your recommendations,
R.

 

[wallacefl]

Roberto...thank you for the comparison. As an owner of the CLSz2 I have been wondering about and considering the conceptual differences between these two designs and how the sonics might differ. After having both the SL3s and the CLS I feel the narrower high/mid frequecy panel versus sub-dividing the panel with the spars gives a better definition (less phase/arrival time differences)...but it is good to hear that the old CLS still fair well in the comparison.

 

[roberto]

Roberto...thank you for the comparison. As an owner of the CLSz2 I have been wondering about and considering the conceptual differences between these two designs and how the sonics might differ. After having both the SL3s and the CLS I feel the narrower high/mid frequecy panel versus sub-dividing the panel with the spars gives a better definition (less phase/arrival time differences)...but it is good to hear that the old CLS still fair well in the comparison.

Hola. Believe me when I said: The CLS is a magical speaker. With the right electronics, in these days, is very difficult to beat even with speakers that cost 10K or over!!!. The coherence, the right size of the instrument(s) the air between them, the truly 3D that you have at the sweet spot make them to be one of the best (to my liking) of the world. Sometimes I think that the low frequency missing at the CLS is not a very important issue. They give you a lot of the right stage, with the bass player way back next to the drummer. My listening position was around the half of the sala. With the CLX I am at the front due to dymanics and low frequency info. Once for all, to my ears, and my small room, the CLX is better, but the CLS has not disappointed me and if I still have it, I will be very proud owner, knowing that they are a very good speakers (with minor flaws) with magic!!! You get the hart of the musician(s) easy. Happy listening,
Roberto.