Changed direction

[Gordon]

A couple weeks ago I was looking for some advice on spinning the black pizza and appreciated all the recommendations. Since then I've had a change of mind and decided to to upgrade the digital side and remain there for the near future.

Yesterday I purchased an MCD1000 transport and the matching MDA1000 DAC to (temporarily) complete my system. I had thought my system sounded good before but this upgrade is beyond belief. I cannot believe how smooth and refined everything sounds now. The digital "edge" is gone and the height, width and depth expanded quite a bit.

I'm going to try and figure out how to post my system and pictures today if I can pull away from the music for a bit!

Gordon

 

[C.A.P]

Not to bash the Black pizza guys but Digital done right can be amazing. Things can appear that were never there on Vinyl .:music:

 

[DrJRapp]

You won't be dissapointed. While I find vinyl to be interesting and in "some" cases better quality, I find the hassel of cleaning and getting up every time I want to change a track to be a bit much.

 

[twich54]

Not to bash the Black pizza guys but Digital done right can be amazing. Things can appear that were never there on Vinyl .:music:

agreed Chris, for one 'can' flip the digital words in your quote with vinyl and that to would hold true. Again the operative word here is "can" !

Sweet music is just that....sweet, be it on digital or vinyl !

 

[sleepysurf]

IMHO, those who go digital, gotta include a setup for streaming lossless files and Internet Radio (Squeezebox/Transporter, Sonos, Apple Lossless, whatever). Make sure you have a high quality DAC, and you'll be smitten!

 

[C.A.P]

agreed Chris, for one 'can' flip the digital words in your quote with vinyl and that to would hold true. Again the operative word here is "can" !

Sweet music is just that....sweet, be it on digital or vinyl !

Never a truer statement has been said. I concur 100%.

 

[Audiophiliac]

Digital is the way of the future. Vinyl seems to be strong these days too, but I feel it is more of a novelty niche. A nostalgic experience if you will. Although, done right, and with the right material, a proper vinyl setup can really really really sound gooooooood.

I am interested to see the direction high end companies will take the digital market. PS Audio's upcoming PWT and Ultralink III DAC combo is going to be interesting. The PWT still plays "CD"s but not in the traditional sense. Do some googling. The UL III though looks to be something good.

One person to do some research on is Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio. He is kind of the go to guru of "computer audiophilia" if you will. He has some great products already and has some really great ones in the works.

I agree with sleepy....you have to be able to store and stream large amounts of lossless music bit for bit and make it convenient, and easy to use/maintain. There are lots of ways to do it. Just pick the one that works for you.

 

[FISH_MAN]

Digital is the way of the future. Vinyl seems to be strong these days too, but I feel it is more of a novelty niche. A nostalgic experience if you will. Although, done right, and with the right material, a proper vinyl setup can really really really sound gooooooood.

I would say that you may be a little off here I would not use the word novelty and niche to describe something that basically started the entire audiophile phenomenon. I was a true believer that digital was the only way to go but after actually hearing it in my own home I will say that I would not dismiss it yet.I looooove my SACD player but there are things the vinyl does it can not it just so happens that we "martin logan owners" own just the very speakers that can show of these nice attributes. C.A.P is right digital can and is amazing I really think you almost need both. my turn table really has a snap and beat that you just have to enjoy. but on the other hand the SACD is convenient and clear as a bell. the reason vinyl is making somewhat of a comeback is because mp3's and downloads are about quick candy for the brain single tracks that you can skip threw easily much like a cd but to the enth level. vinyl is about an entire album a work of art from the beginning to the end much like a movie you would not just watch your favorite chapters and then switch to another movie. I think people miss that whole experience and vinyl sort of forces you to listen the way the artist intended and I think people like that I know I do.

 

[Audiophiliac]

FISH_MAN, you brought up the point I was trying to make with my statement. Vinyl surely was the beginnings. But to me, it seems, that over time, it has become something more of a niche market. Its definitely not mainstream. I think the experiece you described of buying an album on vinyl and listening to the entire thing and enjoying the music is something that escapes a majority of today's society. Most people do not have an interest in these experiences today. I even find myself only listening to an entire album right when I purchase it.....and then it gets placed in my playlist which is nearly always set to play at random...and even then, I am always skipping tracks...I have a lot of music that I really do not listen too that much.

I wish I could find the motivation and interest to build a vinyl collection and the proper equipment to enjoy it on (ML of course), but my priorities are elsewhere, and I do not see them changing in the near future. Maybe someday I will....but it will be as an "escape" for me...I would become part of that niche market.

Hopefully my point comes across in more sense. I am not trying to talk down vinyl. I think its great! And sure it give you an entirely different experience than digital music formats. But each has its place, strengths, and weaknesses.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I think I understand what you are trying to achieve .

 

[amey01]

IMHO, those who go digital, gotta include a setup for streaming lossless files and Internet Radio (Squeezebox/Transporter, Sonos, Apple Lossless, whatever). Make sure you have a high quality DAC, and you'll be smitten!

Agreed - whether now or later, make sure any digital front end includes a high quality DAC to give you the flexibility to do whatever you want with it in the future.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Gordon,

Congratulations on the new purchase. Enjoy, which I'm sure you are.

GG

 

[User211]

I believe most never hear what a top flight TT is capable of. It just costs way too much money for most to invest in.

I've been playing and comparing the overlaps I have in my collection - on CD and on vinyl. The TT is trashing my Tri-Vista SACD player every time - but I don't have that many overlaps.

How is it better? Well, it's much smoother and more listenable in the mid-range and up - just like it isn't trying - it justs finds the art of music playback a lot easier and more natural.

How is it worse? Well, there is more noise and bass isn't as tight and well controlled, but somehow it seems more "tuneful".

And never forget, 44.1Khz sampling is low, low, low. The big ole pizza simply stores more information than a standard CD.

I believe the latest high end MCs are just pushing analogue into hitherto unknown territory, and I am truly amazed. No wonder Hi-Fi News gave the Orpheus 19/20 as an SQ rating. I'm not sure anything has scored higher. Even the Air Tight PC1 only hit 90% (different reviewer's, though).

In SACD mode, the Tri-Vista is appreciably better, but the market hasn't responded to SACD, or high res digital in general. But I believe digital is the way forward... we just need much higher sampling rates, as SACD has proven, at least for me.

Anyway, Gordon, glad you are happy with the upgrade. And I am not saying you have made a mistake - I believe the statements I have just made are correct - but if you heard the same thing it is possible you wouldn't agree. Audio - always a challenge. And that's half the fun!

 

[RichTeer]

I believe most never hear what a top flight TT is capable of. It just costs way too much money for most to invest in.

Agreed, although I guess it depends from where you come. If one is relatively new to music in a serious way, it's not too expensive to get a good analog rig. It's only when one has lots of CDs and few records on vinyl that the value proposition gets more dicey.

Luckily for me, I got out of CD years ago, when I had only 75 CDs in my collection, and about 40 or 50 so records. I sold most of my CDs and my CD player to help pay for my first turntable, a piano lacquer black Roksan Xerxes with a Rega RB300 and an Audio Technica AT-F5.

Fast forward to the present. I have quite a decent analog front end (pics coming soon, once my Spires are here) and about 1400 records. I also have a CD player I bought from my neighbour for $10 to play the 50 or so CDs I seem to have collected over the years. I rarely play CDs, however, because CD to me is about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit...

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Justin,

Does the Tri -Vista have upsampling options? That is one feature that, IMHO, is a must for a CDP. Can make a red book sound much more like a SACD. My Cary can do both in the analogue and digital domain. Amazing how you can "dial in" the sound using both upsampling options and the various iterations thereof.

Regarding the pizza noir, I totally understand those who find it a more compelling medium. The issue, for me, is not only money but basic operational convienence.

I used to do analogue but the amount of effort required to optimize LP sound, from my personal experience, is quite substantial.

I also found, though others have disagreed with this perspective, that it's difficult to fine tune an analogue based system and a digital based system so they both sound equally good. Perhaps Jeff can provide some insight / observations.

As others have noted, the two mediums have their own distinctive personalities.

GG

 

[User211]

Hi Gordon,

No options - it always upsamples to 192KHz. Here's a review from the 'phile: http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/838/index.html.

It is a good player... I don't think they get much better, to be honest.

I never have much trouble setting up my TT - but some are probably more fickle than others.

Here's a good possibility for the thread originating Gordon, and a very nice match visually: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1200498039&read&3&4&

But if you don't have any records, it might be hard to justify...

Justin

 

[tonepub]

I find it to be more dependent on mastering.

I've heard great digital and great vinyl, (and am heavily invested in both) but most days, it's a lot easier to drop a CD on and push play...

 

[risabet]

Hi Justin,

Does the Tri -Vista have upsampling options? That is one feature that, IMHO, is a must for a CDP. Can make a red book sound much more like a SACD. My Cary can do both in the analogue and digital domain. Amazing how you can "dial in" the sound using both upsampling options and the various iterations thereof.

Upsampling doesn't add the information that is missing. It can certainly change the sound but there is no more info than stock Redbook.

Regarding the pizza noir, I totally understand those who find it a more compelling medium. The issue, for me, is not only money but basic operational convienence.

Can't argue with that!

I used to do analogue but the amount of effort required to optimize LP sound, from my personal experience, is quite substantial.

Only originally IME, after an analog system is dialed in, it stays that way for a good amount of time. LPs do require some on-going care but not an exorbitant amount. The trade-off is worth it.

I also found, though others have disagreed with this perspective, that it's difficult to fine tune an analogue based system and a digital based system so they both sound equally good. Perhaps Jeff can provide some insight / observations.

A question of time. It took me a number of years to find a DAC, cables and set-up that made CD as listenable as analog. It still isn't as musical but I don't think it can be made so. SACD has a better overall sound and the best disc are close to the best vinyl, but only close.

As others have noted, the two mediums have their own distinctive personalities.

That they do.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Justin,

Your CDP is used by many discriminating listeners, including professional reviewers that use it as a "reference".

It is, without a doubt, a very musical piece. Would love to hear it.

Having said that, I have a similar viewpoint for my Cary.

GG

 

[Gordon]

Interesting responses to say the least!! I'm glad in my original post I did say I'm "temporarily" done upgrading. Some of you guys post compelling reasons for and against both mediums. I think if Justin (User211) was a neighbor, he could have convinced me to go vinyl a couple years ago!

Ease of use was a major factor in our decision. My wife is an avid listener, not a critical listener. Not trying to pass off blame but this system is as much hers as mine. She wants to be able to push two or three buttons and have music in the house. I could have bought a lesser CD/SACD and a TT but probably would not have been happy with either choice over the long run. Now that ease is covered with the wife, the option is still open to add a TT in the future.

The library of vinyl in this house consists of 1 garage sale record bought for me by one of the kids. It probably would pull the stylus off on the first revolution! Our CD collection is not as vast as some but meets our needs and is always being added to.

The addition of a quality transport and DAC has given me a new respect for the format. My old CD/SACD player had an edge that always slightly bothered me along with a slight mechanical glitch that skipped and let me know that it was digital now and then. Whatever magic is done inside these new boxes eliminated that edge and seems to have smoothed out most of the CDs I've listened to over the past couple days. Gordon mentioned to me one day, we get to hear all the warts on a revealing system. The warts now are not as large and ugly.

I honestly want to thank all of you for the feedback. Opinions on both sides are very important to me and are an invaluable tool.

Gordon