CD/SACD Player?

[Hauger92]

I'm new to the forum and just purchased a pair of Puritys. I already have a Pioneer Elite VSX82 and I'm interested in puchasing a nice CD/SACD player. I am thinking about getting the Denon DVD3930 because I've heard great things about the audio performance, it's modifiable, and I get a great deal on it. I'm not that concerned with video playback, more so with music. Are there any CD/SACD players out there that are better than the DVD3930 for $1k or under? Thanks!

 

[JonFo]

That Denon should be excellent at that price point.

I've got an older 2900 that is still an awsome audio transport. I have better DVD players, but that's my best multichannel player.

The 3920 is a great audio and still a great video player.

However, all that said, you should also look closely athe Pioneer DV-79AVi as it supports passing DVD-A and SACD over Firewire to your Receiver.
And it's also under $1k.

 

[Burke]

Oppo DV-980H

Also look at the OPPO DV-980H Universal DVD Player with HDMI and 7.1CH Audio.

I have the DV-971 and 981 (optimized for video) the 980 is optimized for sound. It will play any format CD / SACD / DVD-A, it outputs either PCM or DSD via the hdmi to your receiver and the Pioneer Elite DACs do a great job with the rest (I have the VSX-74.

At $169 it is the best deal out there, uses the same chip set and design as the high end Denon's at a fraction of the cost.

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/

They are also available modded from Reference Audio Mods

I am very happy with mine. Spend the difference on some killer SACDs or DVD-As.

--burke

 

[sleepysurf]

I recently bought the Oppo 980H, and it's definitely a great value for both Redbook CD and SACD. Haven't had much time for head-to-head comparisons with my Squeezebox/Benchmark combo (which is my primary source), but it certainly sounds fine with the few SACD's I've played on it. One nice feature is the remote has an "audio only" button which turns off all video circuitry for serious listening. It has performed stellar with DVD playback. A new Oppo, the 983H, is slated for release Feb/Mar, which has (I think) the same audio capability, but supposedly even better video processing (but not Blu-Ray or HD-DVD). AVSForum.com has lots of threads discussing the current and forthcoming Oppo players.

 

[Hauger92]

Thanks for the info guys, it helps a lot. I have heard good things about the Oppo players but it is hard to believe you get that much out of a player that is so inexpensive. I am on a budget so its very attractive to buy the Oppo. I work for a Denon dealer and get a the 3930 at a great price that's hard to pass up. The Oppo is still loads cheaper, but do you think the Denon is going to perform better or not. If it's not noticable on my Puritys I'll go with the Oppo.

As an A/V salesman I get nervous about low priced gear. Everything I see that is dirt cheap is junk nine times out of ten. There's usually a catch. Any catches with the Oppo? Please give me some reassurance!

 

[benleeys]

However, all that said, you should also look closely athe Pioneer DV-79AVi as it supports passing DVD-A and SACD over Firewire to your Receiver.
And it's also under $1k.

I've owned the DV-79AVi as well as its predecessor, the DV-59AVi. The older unit performs better in both video and audio (but compares poorly with my current Denon 5910). Market opinion of it is so poor, a brand new unit here is now available for only about US$650. Be advised.

 

[JonFo]

Ben, is the Pioneer dislike for it's analog performance or for other reasons?

The only reason it's in consideration is it's able to pass all audio signals untouched to the processor. So its analog performance would be irrelevant.

Its video performance would be important I'm guessing. So feedback on that would be good.

The oppos are great because they can pass all audio signals from any class of disc as PCM over HDMI 1.1 to the receiver, so who cares about the D/A qualities.

 

[Hauger92]

So I'm a little confused. Since the Oppo passes PCM via HDMI, does that mean I shouldn't run any analog audio to my AVR for redbook and SACD playback? Or should I? Remember I have a Pioneer Elite VSX82 and I may have a VSX92 soon because it might get exchanged by Pioneer. What are the best ways to hook this baby up to get the most raw, analog sound possible?

 

[benleeys]

Ben, is the Pioneer dislike for it's analog performance or for other reasons?

The only reason it's in consideration is it's able to pass all audio signals untouched to the processor. So its analog performance would be irrelevant.

Its video performance would be important I'm guessing. So feedback on that would be good.

The oppos are great because they can pass all audio signals from any class of disc as PCM over HDMI 1.1 to the receiver, so who cares about the D/A qualities.

Jon, regarding its video performance, the review here (search for manufacturer 'Pioneer Elite') that I just found speaks for itself. As for its audio, I am trying to locate it for you - just can't remember where I read it before.

The unit is supposed to be Pioneer's flagship, so I guess we expect a lot from it. But if you can get one at the throwaway price I mentioned, or less, it should be useful as a transport. By the way, its predecessor, the 59AVi can do almost whatever it does in video/audio, and better, IMHO.

 

[Burke]

So I'm a little confused. Since the Oppo passes PCM via HDMI, does that mean I shouldn't run any analog audio to my AVR for redbook and SACD playback? Or should I? Remember I have a Pioneer Elite VSX82 and I may have a VSX92 soon because it might get exchanged by Pioneer. What are the best ways to hook this baby up to get the most raw, analog sound possible?

I have my Oppo hooked to my Pioneer Elite VSX-74TVXi via the HDMI cable. This allows me to play stereo Redbook CDs. and 5.1 channel SACDs and DVDs (A or V). This also uses the DACs in the VSX-74 rather than those in the Oppo, just a transport for me, and I believe that the Pioneer DACs are better. Another reason is that I could not determine if the Pioneer was doing and analog pass thru (which would by pass the fancy room corrections) or a A/D and then D/A systems which would have to sound worse that using the DACs directly.

--just my $0.02

 

[Craig]

You need to check out the latest issue of the Stereophile magazine Jan 08 issue. There is an article and review of the Oppo 980H, Denon 3930 and an Integra reciever. Much of the discussion is around using the HDMI connection to pass an SACD DSD signal to a reciever which the Oppo is very capable of doing. The Denon 3930 is also a nice universal. You should just buy both. You'll need to spend at least $60 on a HDMI cable anyway and you get that free with the Oppo.

 

[JohnA]

...However, all that said, you should also look closely athe Pioneer DV-79AVi as it supports passing DVD-A and SACD over Firewire to your Receiver.
And it's also under $1k.

I've got this one, although it is labelled differently for the UK market.

It is OK as a universal player, but not exceptional in anything in particular.
The tracking leaves a bit to be desired - it doesn't skip, but on a tracking/error-correction test I've got it fared pretty mediocre.

Maybe that's a downside of using a DVD transport for CDs, who knows.
My Rega CD player (that skips on loud music) scored much better.
Go figure.

 

[lugano]

unless you spend 5000$ or more, there is no hope.

Any SACD player costing less than that is not worth the money you actually spend for these 4 letters.

 

[Rich]

unless you spend 5000$ or more, there is no hope.

Any SACD player costing less than that is not worth the money you actually spend for these 4 letters.

Come on, Lugano. That's being just a tad melodramatic, don't you think. The guy isn't looking for the holy grail of SACD players; he is simply asking whether there is anything available for under $1,000 that is of higher quality than the Denon in order to mate with his Pioneer receiver and a pair of Purity's. If you don't have any useful suggestions, I understand not posting. But why jump in with such a pretentious and condescending post as this?

 

[sleepysurf]

IMHO, I'm quite happy having cobbled together a decent digital playback system (Squeezebox/Oppo 970H), plus a Benchmark DAC-1, for a total cost under $1500 (new). Factor in another $300 for a 500 GB NAS (if needed). You can certainly continue throwing additional $$ at esoteric transports/players, each step with infinitesimally smaller improvements in fidelity. As I'm appreciating more and more, better to throw those extra $$ into room acoustic treatments and/or EQ.

BTW, re Redbook CD vs. SACD fidelity, here's a very interesting link purporting they are audibly EQUALas long as the mastering and other processing is properly done!

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1

 

[DTB300]

unless you spend 5000$ or more, there is no hope.

Any SACD player costing less than that is not worth the money you actually spend for these 4 letters.

That is why you go the modded route with a player and get performance 3x-4x the cost. Spending the kind of money you state on a stock player is just not needed for great RB and SACD playback.

When Jeff Z visited he really liked what he heard from my $1300 (player plus mods) setup. He called it very analogue sounding - which I guess means not your typical digital type sound that turns a lot of us off.

BTW, re Redbook CD vs. SACD fidelity, here's a very interesting link purporting they are audibly EQUALas long as the mastering and other processing is properly done!

But there as many, if not more articles and professionals, that show with a well made RB and SACD when done properly for each medium, the SACD will be better. Same thing when CD's first came out, they just took the Vinyl master and put it on CD and the results were HORRIBLE. So each medium we listen to needs to be recorded and mastered differently to achieve the best results possible.

But as we know SACD has fallen into a very niche market with Classical being the prime genre with the MCH abilities.

And IMO, there is no BEST medium out there now, as each has its plus and minues to live with.

 

[lugano]

Come on, Lugano. That's being just a tad melodramatic, don't you think.

No, I don't thin k so.

The guy isn't looking for the holy grail of SACD players; he is simply asking whether there is anything available for under $1,000 that is of higher quality than the Denon in order to mate with his Pioneer receiver and a pair of Purity's.

Ok, so we're in discount territory right now, everything goes ? I thought we're on a Martin Logan forum, the holy grail of most loudspeakers in the world. Denon, Pioneer and Martin Logan not only do not belong in the same sentence, they do not belong in the same paragraph. And "mating" is something inferior species go for.

If you don't have any useful suggestions, I understand not posting. But why jump in with such a pretentious and condescending post as this?

I do have useful suggestions, it's only pityful that you can't pick them up and you only understand "not posting" - your words, not mine. As of "condescending" and "pretentious"... it's not what my post is about , it's just the way you see it. In other words...

 

[twich54]

I thought we're on a Martin Logan forum, the holy grail of most loudspeakers in the world. Denon, Pioneer and Martin Logan not only do not belong in the same sentence, they do not belong in the same paragraph. And "mating" is something inferior species go for.

Holly Molly...... and I thought you Swiss were always neutral ! LOL !

Anyways, Rich is right, the original poster was asking specific to his budget, nothing wrong with that.

Besides, saying M/L's are the "Holy Grail" of loud speakers is one hell of a stretch, the mere fact that they produce a wide spectrum (performance and price) in order to satisfy everbodys budget suggest just the opposite.

As far as saying you need to spend 5k or more suggest to me that you have spent a little too much time up in the thin air of the Alps !! in other words .....total B S !!

 

[TomD]

I am looking to replace my DVD and CD player and am glad this came up. Unfortunately, this potential replacement is not in the 5k or even 1k range. I am still trying to understand if one unit can be as good as separate units.

There is certainly a stigma associated with inexpensive units, especially below $200. I would be very hesitant about purchasing the Oppo based solely on the price. Apparently I am mistaken based on some opinions, yet i can relate to the opinion that certain units should not be matched with Martin Logan speakers. After all, it seems sacreligious to cause any degradation to their sound. But where does it end? We all cannot afford the best there is and must make due by obtaining the best that we can afford.

I know that I have second rate equipment compared to what is used by this group. And still the sound is incredible; I really wonder what it must be like to have tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. Does anyone here believe in the point of diminishing returns when it comes to their systems? Can a $169 Oppo really compete with Martin Logan speakers (Aeon i and cinema i btw)?

 

[Rich]

Can a $169 Oppo really compete with Martin Logan speakers (Aeon i and Center I btw)?

Sure it can . . . if you pay Reference Audio Mods to do about $1200 worth of modifications to it.

I agree that you have to upgrade when and where you can, according to your budget. My recommendation to someone would be to stay with a cheaper source component until you have upgraded your preamp and amplifier to a certain quality level to be able to hear the difference in a higher end source.

Especially to someone who hasn't necessarily heard better, Martin Logans sound great with just about any equipment. But once you start feeding them proper clean power, a clean and neutral signal with no distortion, and a source that extracts every minute bit of data from the recording, then you will understand what all the fuss is about. The reactions of your listeners go from: "Oh, that really sounds good," to: Oh my GOD! That is Amazing! I think I just soiled myself!" :musicnote: