Cary SLP-05?

[jtwrace]

Just to let you know, I ordered my black SLP-05 today. Should have it in a week.

Can't wait!!!

Hope I like it...

 

[Gordon Gray]

True, a fine highly resolving system will be more sensitive to changes, cables, audio racks, etc. However, it's possible that two preamps may just happen to sound the same.

Hi Craig,

Didn't think about this scenario. Totally agree. Wouldn't it be interesting if the industry ever got to this point. Read total neutrality with no colorations.

GG

 

[Rich]

Didn't think about this scenario. Totally agree. Wouldn't it be interesting if the industry ever got to this point. Read total neutrality with no colorations.

Actually, this is a point Roger Sanders likes to make. He believes that any properly designed high end preamp should sound like virtually any other. After taking his challenge and A/B'ing his solid state preamp against my ARC Ref 3, I have to say he made a believer out of me. I could tell some differences between the two, but it was very minute and subtle details. Not the major differences most people talk about when comparing preamp A to preamp B.

 

[jtwrace]

Actually, this is a point Roger Sanders likes to make. He believes that any properly designed high end preamp should sound like virtually any other. After taking his challenge and A/B'ing his solid state preamp against my ARC Ref 3, I have to say he made a believer out of me. I could tell some differences between the two, but it was very minute and subtle details. Not the major differences most people talk about when comparing preamp A to preamp B.

This thread is no fun anymore. You have all managed to make my excitment disappear. Just think, you spend what I just did and have people tell you that you wasted your money.

 

[Rich]

Oops. Err . . . Umm . . . I hope you you like your new preamp. Cary is awesome.

 

[music again]

Cary SLP-05 versus the Sanders pre amp

Actually, this is a point Roger Sanders likes to make. He believes that any properly designed high end preamp should sound like virtually any other. After taking his challenge and A/B'ing his solid state preamp against my ARC Ref 3, I have to say he made a believer out of me. I could tell some differences between the two, but it was very minute and subtle details. Not the major differences most people talk about when comparing preamp A to preamp B.

I had auditioned the Sanders 2 channel amp the past 30 days and have decided to put forth the cash and purchase the thing! I added a set of RCA Kimber Hero ICs and the base was completely transformed. I still have issues with one of the Summit panels so I'm not experiencing the air and 3D like I think is possible. This amp is VERY dynamic. I've jumped out of my chair more than once experiencing a passage I never heard like that before. I can only atribute it to the amp. Endless power.

I also have a Cary SLP-03 (borrowed from my dealer) in the loop. I too am considering the SLP-05. Roger was LESS than impressed with SLP-05 specs. He does believe it should be a straight wire! He also HATES tubes - period!

With all of the talk about how great the REF 3 is, are you saying the Sanders pre amp is as good? $10,000 with tubes versus $3,995 without tubes. Let me think about that one . . . . Where is your REF3 review located?

Comments Rich?

Thanks JM

 

[Rich]

Comments Rich?

I haven't done a detailed review of the Ref 3 yet, since I have really only had it in my system for a month or so and I haven't had a lot of time to get everything dialed in. I have been spending most of my time recently trying to finish out the multichannel part of the system. I have written a little about the Ref 3 in a couple of threads, and I will re-iterate that it is an incredible preamp. Very neutral, with a wide and deep soundstage, great dynamics, beautiful frequency extension at both ends of the spectrum and a gorgeous midrange.

I did not say that the Sanders Solid State preamp is as good as the ARC Ref 3. What I said is that I did an A/B test between the two and it was very difficult to tell the difference. As far as most measures are concerned, they sounded very close to one another. But the Sanders preamp had just the slightest amount of edge to it that I did not get with the ARC. On vocals and leading transients, there was just a sharper edge to the Sanders while the ARC was smoother. That is the only way I was able to pick out the difference between the two. Using that, I was able to pick out which one I was listening to on average three out of four times.

Having said all that, let me add this caveat. My testing was not done under the best of circumstances, nor was it overly scientific. I did it by myself over the course of one evening. I was using Roger's A/B switch, the quality of which I know nothing about. His switch uses RCA connections, so I was unable to use my normal balanced cables. The RCA cables had to be kind of long (2 meters) and I didn't have the best cables available. Also, as I have said I am working on my room, so the speakers were pretty well positioned but may not have been completely dialed in. How this affected the test, I don't know. But if it did, it certainly affected both preamps equally.

My take is that the Sanders preamp is completely neutral (tonally) and very true to the source. It has incredible clarity and detail, but still exhibits just the slightest amount of edge that we tend to associate with solid state. If someone was looking for a great neutral and detailed solid state preamp, I would not hesitate to recommend the Sanders. In fact, I have strongly recommended it to Gordon Gray on this forum because I know how much he values detail and clarity in his system.

So which one did I keep? For me, the choice was easy. I kept both of them. I have the ARC Ref 3 in my reference system, and it provides a nice balance to Sanders' monobloc amps on the Summits. I get a huge soundstage, great imaging, gobs of detail and dynamics galore, but with a nice rich smoothness and body.

I put the Sanders preamp in my secondary system down in my basement game room. It is feeding into my Pass Labs X-350.5, which it seems to be particularly suited to. The Pass seems to help smooth out that little bit of edginess that I referred to in the Sanders. The two of them together just produce incredible music through my Ascents. The source is my RAM-modified Oppo DV970. My basement system cost less than half what the two-channel part of my main system cost, and easily sounds 85% to 90% as good. If I just put some acoustic treatments down there, who knows?

So there you have it. Is the Sanders as good as the ARC? Not quite. Is the ARC 2 1/2 times better than the Sanders (cost difference)? Nowhere near it. The differences are subtle. But to someone who loves the difference that tubes can make to an audio signal, they are important.

I will say that I don't think Roger "hates" tubes. I think he believes that they exhibit a lot of noise, distortion, and other characteristics that he believes impacts the true reproduction of the audio signal in a negative way. I understand that perspective. But from my own experience, I have to say that tubes add something to the audio signal that is really important to enjoying the sound, and that is a smoothness and richness that you just can't seem to get completely with solid state. But I believe it is very difficult to use tubes properly in an audio circuit to avoid a lot of the other issues that tubes bring to the table. That is why I think the ARC commands the price it does. It uses tubes but sounds as clean and neutral as any solid state preamp, while still sounding smooth and harmonically rich. That is difficult to do and I think few manufacturers do it as well as ARC.

Just as a side point, I also compared the Sanders to my CJ Premier 17 LS2, and the Sanders was so much better as far as the tightness of the lows, the clarity of the highs and the overall neutrality and tonal balance of the sound. But the CJ blew it away in the beauty of its buttery-smooth midrange. The Sanders was accurate. The CJ was inaccurate, but gorgeous. The ARC combines the best of both worlds in a special way.

 

[music again]

REF3 and Sanders pre amps

So there you have it. Is the Sanders as good as the ARC? Not quite. Is the ARC 2 1/2 times better than the Sanders (cost difference)? Nowhere near it. The differences are subtle. But to someone who loves the difference that tubes can make to an audio signal, they are important.

Rich,

WOW! Thanks for taking the time to give such a lengthy and detailed perspective. You certainly bring up some valid points and a lot for me to ponder . . . still.

I guess I'll have to get the Summit panels fixed for now and enjoy the Sanders power amp for awhile. I'll have to give the Cary SLP-03 back to the dealer soon and reinsert my old Hafler preamp until I decide what to do.

Thanks again for your insights.

JM

 

[jtwrace]

here it is....

I struggle resizing the pics so this should work much better. Also, save tom some bandwidth.

http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=3AaNWTRm1ZO1A&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5

It is " breaking in" now. I just don't have enough time at the moment to do any real critical listening. Trying to win the big one...