Cary Cinema 11 as your pre amp

[music again]

This will be my system in about three weeks:
- ML Summits
- Sanders Sound System 2 channel power amp
- Hafler DH110 pre amp (the piece to be replaced now in question)
- Oppo DV981-HD (to be replaced later on)
- Kimber Hero IC's
- Monster speaker cable (to be replaced later, later)

Currently I have on loan a Cary SLP-03 (tubed) pre amp. Baby brother to the SLP-05). I am a two channel (thus far) listener. However, 20 some years ago I heard an old ADS (?) surround unit that had variable time delay. We put a pair of small speakers in the back of the room and I was amazed how the FRONT soundstage opened up. I really liked that sensation of 3D in the front, without really even knowing the speakers were in the back of the room.

Here's my question:

Any thoughts on using the Cinema 11 as my main pre amp, with the ability of hooking up a pair of speakers in the back? I'm not all that familiar with the dozens of DSP types, but I'll "assume" I can find a simple time delayed setting that would accomplish what I am looking for, with no center channel.

The worst case I guess is that later on I can always get a "better" pre amp and use the Cinema 11 for a surround processor via a pass through. Could I use just a surround delay setting on the Cinema 11, WITH another pre amp . . . not a passthrough, but having the main pre amp do its thing and the Cary just adding the delay to the back?

Thoughts on this whole idea?

Thanks!

JM

 

[Rich]

You have an incredible pair of speakers powered by an incredible amp. They, and you, deserve a comparable preamp being fed by a comparable source. Multichannel can be enchanting -- no doubt about it. But I personally don't think it can compare to a high-end dedicated two-channel system. Just my opinion, obviously.

My advice would be to invest now in a great two-channel preamp and a great CD/SACD (or vinyl, if you prefer) source player and finish what you have started -- a reference two-channel system that will blow you away. Then if you want to play with a multichannel pre and amp later, you can look for some deals on the 'gon and build up that aspect of the system too. But unless you are just a movie / multichannel audio freak, I would finalize the awesome two-channel system that you have started.

 

[sleepysurf]

I agree with the previous posts. Just make sure you get a two-channel preamp (SS or tube) that has home theater bypass. You can later add a good surround sound receiver (or Pre/Pro with multi-channel amp), and still use the Sanders amp to power your Summits. The latest crop of A/V receivers (especially the Denon line, IMHO) are VERY capable, and also include Audyssey MultEQ room correction. I just got the Denon 3808CI receiver, and SOME folks who've heard it think it sounds BETTER than my Modwright Pre! I'm very impressed with Audyssey room correction, although there are some subtle sonic "trade-offs" when using it. Onkyo, NAD, and others are also offering Audyssey, but Denon includes a BETTER measurement mic and MORE user-adjustable Audyssey controls than the others. There's LOTS of discussion about Audyssey (and the new crop of A/V receivers) on AVSforum.com

 

[timm]

I agree with the previous posts. Just make sure you get a two-channel preamp (SS or tube) that has home theater bypass. You can later add a good surround sound receiver (or Pre/Pro with multi-channel amp), and still use the Sanders amp to power your Summits. The latest crop of A/V receivers (especially the Denon line, IMHO) are VERY capable, and also include Audyssey MultEQ room correction. I just got the Denon 3808CI receiver, and SOME folks who've heard it think it sounds BETTER than my Modwright Pre! I'm very impressed with Audyssey room correction, although there are some subtle sonic "trade-offs" when using it. Onkyo, NAD, and others are also offering Audyssey, but Denon includes a BETTER measurement mic and MORE user-adjustable Audyssey controls than the others. There's LOTS of discussion about Audyssey (and the new crop of A/V receivers) on AVSforum.com

Agree,agree,and agree.... Question for you... The cinema by-pass... I haven't quite figued that out in my head.... If I had a dedicated 2 channel system - and went into it via analog - and also had a processor - which I went into via digital inputs.... and my amp has 2 connections /channel.....where does the cinema bypass become useful?

I would have both the processor and 2 channel pre connected to the amp via its 2 seperate connections/ and the digital out from the dvd/cd etc.... would go directly to the processor - in essence bypassing the 2 channel pre...

What am I missing? - and what is the purpose of the bypass? thx tim.

 

[sleepysurf]

When using your multi-channel surround processor (or receiver), you would feed the L and R Front pre-out signals THROUGH the Home Theater Bypass (HTB) of your two-channel Preamp... passing it straight through (with unity gain, and no signal processing) to your Sanders amp. The volume control of your processor would control ALL channels (including the fronts). If you have a Tube pre, you'd only get the tube signal path with pure two-channel listening. It's also possible to set up the same functionality with ANY pre-amp that doesn't actually have HTB, but you need to determine exactly where to set the Pre's volume control to maintain proper balance with the rest of your speakers.

 

[music again]

Theater bypass confusion

I'm with Tim. I do not understand how this works.

My specific questions:

1. Is there a way to use your two channel pre amp AND the two channel amp used to drive it, WITH a surround processor with its own amp for the other channels, whether there be 2, 3, 4 rr 5 more channels? In other words I want to use my "reference" two channel system, with an add on processor for the other channels.

OR

2. Are we saying that once you introduce a processor with a theater bypass, it litarally leaves out your two channel set up completely, and process ALL channels through the processor, including the front two channels. In this case, it seems like the "reference" pre amp AND power amp are out of the picture altogether. NOT what I want.

Confused.

JM


nema by-pass... I haven't quite figued that out in my head.... If I had a dedicated 2 channel system - and went into it via analog - and also had a processor - which I went into via digital inputs.... and my amp has 2 connections /channel.....where does the cinema bypass become useful?

I would have both the processor and 2 channel pre connected to the amp via its 2 seperate connections/ and the digital out from the dvd/cd etc.... would go directly to the processor - in essence bypassing the 2 channel pre...

What am I missing? - and what is the purpose of the bypass? thx tim.[/QUOTE]

 

[MiTT]

I'm with Tim. I do not understand how this works.

My specific questions:

1. Is there a way to use your two channel pre amp AND the two channel amp used to drive it, WITH a surround processor with its own amp for the other channels, whether there be 2, 3, 4 rr 5 more channels? In other words I want to use my "reference" two channel system, with an add on processor for the other channels.

OR

2. Are we saying that once you introduce a processor with a theater bypass, it litarally leaves out your two channel set up completely, and process ALL channels through the processor, including the front two channels. In this case, it seems like the "reference" pre amp AND power amp are out of the picture altogether. NOT what I want.

Confused.

JM


nema by-pass... I haven't quite figued that out in my head.... If I had a dedicated 2 channel system - and went into it via analog - and also had a processor - which I went into via digital inputs.... and my amp has 2 connections /channel.....where does the cinema bypass become useful?

I would have both the processor and 2 channel pre connected to the amp via its 2 seperate connections/ and the digital out from the dvd/cd etc.... would go directly to the processor - in essence bypassing the 2 channel pre...

What am I missing? - and what is the purpose of the bypass? thx tim.

Actually, it's just the opposite. The signal path looks like this:

DVD, CABLE or other
Video Source
to
Pre-Pro-----> Multi-Channel amp to Center & Surround Speakers
to
2 Channel Pre-amp to 2 Channel Amp to Main Speakers
to
Analog and other 2 Channel Sources

(Sorry, wish I could draw here)

The point is that your multi-channel and video sources feed the Pre-Pro, which then feeds the main Left and Right front signals to the 2 channel pre-amp via it's HT bypass inputs. In the case of my BAT and many others, this is an assignable input and has unity gain - that is to say, the volume control on the 2 channel pre-amp has no effect on this sources volume level, rather, it is always controlled by the Pre-Pro, just as it also controls the volume levels on your center and surround channels. Therefore the main 2 channel pre-amp merely "passes through" the signal from the Pre-Pro.

The advantage is that your 2 channel pre-amp also has all of your other music sources hooked up to it, and it always feeds your main amp always driving the 2 main speakers. Your home theater is just another 2 channel input as far as your main system is concerned, and you always adjust your home theater volume through just your HT pre-pro rather than needing to adjust 3-5 channels at the pre-pro and the other 2 main front L & R at the pre-amp. Additionally, all your 2 channel sources are still gaining the additional sonic benefit of being routed through your (most likely) superior sounding 2 channel pre-amp.

Hope this helps

 

[timm]

When using your multi-channel surround processor (or receiver), you would feed the L and R Front pre-out signals THROUGH the Home Theater Bypass (HTB) of your two-channel Preamp... passing it straight through (with unity gain, and no signal processing) to your Sanders amp. The volume control of your processor would control ALL channels (including the fronts). If you have a Tube pre, you'd only get the tube signal path with pure two-channel listening. It's also possible to set up the same functionality with ANY pre-amp that doesn't actually have HTB, but you need to determine exactly where to set the Pre's volume control to maintain proper balance with the rest of your speakers.

Oh, I get it now... the cinema bypass is a connection from the HT processor outs to the sterep pre-amp - and the signal 'passes thru' to the stereo amp. My amp has multiple inputs / channel - so if your amp DID NOT have mulitple inputs/channel - this would be useful. In essence, I can hook 2 preamps to my amp and whichever is sending the signal (the HT processor or the stereo pre) would rule. So, I can see this being useful if your amp does not have 2 inputs/channel....since if you only had 1/channel - you could only hook 1 pre-amp/processor to it at a time.....