Cable "Burn in"... Fact or Fiction?

[TomDac]

Can someone explain what cable "burn in" is? I can understand amps needing burn-in and of course speakers... but cables?

I don't get it.. Essssplain it to me, Lucy!

 

[DTB300]

For the entire "burn in" issue of any of our components, one has to have a new one and a used one to compare against for a true test. Otherwise it could be taken as the listener is "burning in" or getting used to the sound than a part actually changing.

I have had the opportunity to do this test with a couple of cable manufactures that I owned and both company cables did change over time - some quicker than others.

Why it changes, sorry not an electrical, metalurgist, or scientist to explain the possibilities why. Many articles out there addressing this issue. Many articles out there refuting this issue.

 

[TomDac]

yeah.. I've read some of those articles.. none of the explain the details of what's happening with the conductor... JonFo? Can you enlighten me?

 

[Cherian]

Well I'm an electrical engineer and I don't understand it either. My only guess is that as current flows through a wire it will heat up. Once the wire heats up to a stable level then the impedance of the wire will be more constant this may give you more neutral sound. This is my best guess.

To me it is sounds like more "mumbo jumbo".

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Here are a couple links from Tara Labs. Yes they are a bit biased because Tara Labs does sell cables. They are well respected within the industry but their is some scientific information and testing they have done which will shed some light on this subject.

Now with all of this, it still comes down to a couple of factors which are always constant. One is price, no matter how much it may or may not cost if you can afford it, then it is a matter of justifying the purchase and being happy. The other piece of this is and is the important consideration, can you hear a difference?

http://taralabs.com/images/ConstantCurrentImpedanceTesting.pdf
http://taralabs.com/images/TheConsonantAlloyTM.pdf


Jeff

 

[DTB300]

To me it is sounds like more "mumbo jumbo".

The whole cable debate can fall into this category....

Each has to decide about cables in their setup - price, type, burn-in, connectors, floor, wall, etc. etc.

What sounds best to you (if you can hear a difference between brands) for your budget, is the best cable out there.

 

[amey01]

it could be taken as the listener is "burning in" or getting used to the sound

For a LOT of it, I think this is the case. We are all used to the sound of our own systems. It also explains why we generally (sometimes anyway) prefer the sound of our own systems when compared to those costing several times the price!

How many times have you heard something like "I heard a Gryphon Poseidon and my ML Montage beats it any day!"

or

"I've got some Sequels I recovered from a wreck - I went and listened to Summits yesterday and the old Sequels are better!"

Put it this way - I, personally, have heard "changes" commensurate with burning in when I've purchased used (read: totally burnt in) components.

 

[Beakman]

Consider:
Were this phenomena universal, our computers would run faster, our refrigerators run colder, our table lamps would be a little bit brighter. In fact, anything utilising the flow of electrons should "burn in" to more efficiency. Yet in the whole history of electricity it is only in High End Audio that considerable effort money has been invested in pursuit of.

 

[amey01]

Consider:
Were this phenomena universal, our computers would run faster, our refrigerators run colder, our table lamps would be a little bit brighter. In fact, anything utilising the flow of electrons should "burn in" to more efficiency. Yet in the whole history of electricity it is only in High End Audio that considerable effort money has been invested in pursuit of.

To be fair - the ear is an extremely sensitive device. Much more sensitive than we give it credit for.

Consider: With two channels only (2 ears) it is capable of determining everything we are able to hear. It does this by evaluating time differences between sound reaching one ear before the other, pitch changes, etc. Now that's amazing!

Now if my ear can detect the difference between someone speaking 2 metres in front of me, and the difference when they move 2 degrees to the left, think if what it might be able to hear in electronic components...Still - my previous post (#7) holds.

 

[DTB300]

I have had the opportunity to do this test with a couple of cable manufactures that I owned and both company cables did change over time - some quicker than others. My player has two outputs on it and with a quick switch on the Pre Amp I can change back and forth from one cable to the other. It is about the only test where you can quickly make a change to determine the difference. Swapping out components is a whole new story.

 

[Reverb2009]

Audioquest has a wonderful PDF that explains there cable theories.
If you have time check it out, it's a good read.

http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf



Here is Audioquest's explanation of Running in a cable.


Important Cable Facts Running-In: As with all audio components, audio cables require an adjustment
period. This is often mistakenly referred to as “break-in”. However, break-in is properly used to
describe a mechanical change-engines break-in, loudspeaker and phono cartridge suspensions breakin.
A cable’s performance takes time to optimize because of the way a dielectric behaves (the way the
insulating material absorbs and releases energy), changes in the presence of a charge. Cables will
continue to improve in sound or picture quality over a period of several weeks. This is the same reason
amplifiers, preamplifiers and CD players also require an adjustment period. The key difference between
“adjusting” and “breaking-in” is that things don’t “un-break-in”, however, electrical components do “unadjust”.
Several weeks of disuse will return a cable to nearly its original state.
The run-in time is essentially the same for all cables. However, the apparent need for run-in varies
wildly. As with amplifiers and other components, the better the cable, the less distortion it has, and
therefore the less there is to cover up the obnoxious distortion caused by being new. Since human perception
is more aware of the existence of a distortion than the quantity, the better the cable, the worse
in some ways it will sound when new, because the anemic forced two-dimensional effect reulting from
being new will not be ameliorated by other gentler distortions. Please be patient when first listening to
any superior product.

 

[rdnzl999]

Burn-In is probably Room Temperature Annealing

I've been playing with wires again lately, and the key word for this discussion should be "annealing".

Bending copper stresses it, and apparently changes the electrical characteristics to some degree.

Heating (to a high temperature) allows copper's cubic crystaline structure to repair itself rapidly.

Copper also repairs itself at room temperature, though much more slowly, and at varying rates depending on the type of impurities present and/or the purity of the copper.

So... Break-in would seem to be the subtle effect of copper releasing its stresses and repairing its crystal structure.

I can't find any scholarly reference as to how using the wire (signal or power) would hasten the recovery process (as opposed to heating), but, it stands to reason that the application of electrical energy might contribute to the self-annealing process.

 

[sebrof2000]

I have had the opportunity to do this test with a couple of cable manufactures that I owned and both company cables did change over time - some quicker than others. My player has two outputs on it and with a quick switch on the Pre Amp I can change back and forth from one cable to the other. It is about the only test where you can quickly make a change to determine the difference. Swapping out components is a whole new story.

If someone else was doing the changing and you could pick which was which it would hold a lot more weight, at least to me. Of course, this is another huge can of worms.

 

[shakham]

Consider:
Were this phenomena universal, our computers would run faster, our refrigerators run colder, our table lamps would be a little bit brighter. In fact, anything utilising the flow of electrons should "burn in" to more efficiency. Yet in the whole history of electricity it is only in High End Audio that considerable effort money has been invested in pursuit of.

Valid point...
But they also say for Plasma TVs that the negative burn-in affect gets reduced as the screen gets used 100 hours and has time to burn-in a little overall. I guess that has some logic to it.

I'm in your camp though for the rest of the stuff .