Bought a Depth !!

[VanDaRo]

I'm a sick man. A very sick, sick man.

I saw a Depth subwoofer on the 'Gon last night and immediately made contact with the owner (about 40 miles away ) and set up the deal. I got this little powerhouse for such a nice price that I couldn't refuse. Hell, I was looking to add a little "thump" to the bottom end for quite a while...

So now I'm the proud owner of a Depth subwoofer. That little thing brings home the bacon !! It can completely overwhelm my, and not exactly underpowered, mains with ease. So I have the sub running off of the "record" or "tape" loop for now, but I'll likely take advantage of the high-pass filter option -- where the power amps are fed only the 40 Hz/70 Hz and up information -- in a few days. I'll just need Y-splitters for the unbalanced lines so that I can maintain the vertical bi-amp scheme that I have grown accustomed to.

My question: I've been fumbling around with the "phase" switch, trying to find the best option. Here's what I noticed:

0: Solid thump, blurs imaging though...
90: Thump integrates nicely, but lacks immediacy.
180: Bone-shattering thump, but quick and immediate.
270: Haven't experimented with this setting yet.

So, you subwoofer guys, where do I go from here ???

~VDR

:music:

 

[eknuds01]

Need sub trick:

Try elevating the sub a bit. Place it on a stand or a piece of wood or granite, maybe with foam underneath.

We played with this idea at Dave's (twich54) house some months ago. It made a nice difference.

Sub placement is also important. For those that love to tweak...might I suggest the SMS-1 by Velodyne.

Erik

 

[Satch]

VanDaRo,

Score on the Depth i. It made a huge difference when I added one to my Vistas. After that addition I started working on room treatments. Now I have 4 Real Traps MiniTraps, 2 Corner MondoTraps and 3 Tri-Corner Traps. For me in my room that made a huge difference in clarity and tightness. Thursday I'm getting an ASC Sub Trap 18" square and try out what Eric was talking about.

Is it Happy Hour Yet?
Satch

 

[VanDaRo]

What is your layout and settings on the sub???

PIX !!!

 

[VanDaRo]

More lousy pics from my lousy camera:

 

[Satch]

Pix from another lousy camera

These were taken before I put up the Real Traps... As you can see I'm dealing with a living room / music room that is NOT ideal. That, plus the fact that I'm new to the high-end stereo journey. Nobody around here has a system I can compare it to... 30+ years of playing live helps.

Satch

 

[MOON]

I recently bought a depth as well at a great price. I have the sub set at 6 on the volume , and at 0 on the 25 hz switch , and at 90 on the phase . I haven't really played around with the phase. My system is down at the moment due to a bad circuit board in the Odyessey's which is on it's way now.

I did get a chance to play around with sub placement. I tried corner placement , along the side wall and directlly between the speakers. I found the between the speaker position was the best for integration and seemed to provide a more expansive bass line as apposed to the 2 other positions. It seems to fill the room better in that position.

Powercords and ic's to the sub. Has anyone tried a better powercord than the stock one that comes with the ml subs. If so , what were the differences ?I would also assume the stock powercord isn't up to the job, would that be correct ?

Is there a need for a sub base if the spikes go through the carpet onto the basement cement floor underneath??

One last question - Is there a requirement for a base for the sub if the spikes are penetrating through the carpet into the cement basement floor, which is very solid ??

I bought cheap monster sub ic's from futureshop which would reach all the desired listening positions I wanted to try. I plan on upgrading them as well if you guys can tell me if a really good quality ic would make a difference. I assume it would. I would also be interested in what phase settings you guys use as well as your positioning of the sub and what differences you found from corner , to side wall , to the centre.

Satch , I see your sub is more or less between your speaker too. Did you find that was the best place as appossed to the rear corner or side wall placement?

Cheers

 

[JonFo]

... I did get a chance to play around with sub placement. I tried corner placement , along the side wall and directlly between the speakers. I found the between the speaker position was the best for integration and seemed to provide a more expansive bass line as apposed to the 2 other positions. It seems to fill the room better in that position.
...

When using only one sub, and looking for best musical integration (vs max boomage), the centered between the two mains is often the best locale.

However, it all depends on your room shape. So the above applies to rectangular rooms with the front space surrounded by walls. Satch's setup, with a wall 'missing' on the right would preclude exact centering from being the right answer.

The SMS-1 recommendation is an excellent one. You get an easy to use measurement setup, a good parametric EQ and an active crossover for one reasonable price.
Otherwise, I recommend getting a copy of REW, along with a Rat Shack SPL meter (or the better Galaxy, recommended on the REW forum).

Measuring your own room, with your own settings and your various locations is the only real way to know what is 'best' in your setup.

VDR, you seem comitted enough to the hobby that I'd highly recommend getting these tools.

 

[Big Al]

My Depth is set at 90 phase, 0 25hz, and 6 volume. Take a look!!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6639

 

[MOON]

Hi Al,

What brand is the stand you have the depth sub on ? Were there any improvements in sound with the stand added? I have heard of an Aralux sub dude that is placed under subs, my spelling might be off on the name. If anyone has the website , please pass it along.

Thanks, Greg

 

[Mobs]

My Depth is set at 90 phase, 0 25hz, and 6 volume. Take a look!!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6639

Almost identical to my settings!


Later

 

[katylied]

So I have the sub running off of the "record" or "tape" loop for now,


Record or tape out are fixed in output level, it means that you will increase the main speakers volume but not the subwoofer level. You should use the main out instead.

 

[rhom]

I'm a sick man. A very sick, sick man.

My question: I've been fumbling around with the "phase" switch, trying to find the best option. Here's what I noticed:

0: Solid thump, blurs imaging though...
90: Thump integrates nicely, but lacks immediacy.
180: Bone-shattering thump, but quick and immediate.
270: Haven't experimented with this setting yet.

So, you subwoofer guys, where do I go from here ???

~VDR

:music:

Nothing wrong with being sick if its a good sub that is causing this!

The phase settings of a subwoofer cross-over are generally used to compensate for the relative distance between the unit and the listener, i.e. the idea is for the sub so deliver maximum clean LF output at your listening location. The best way to adjust the phase control is to have someone adjust this control while you sit in your normal listening position. Of course, while listening to a recording with appropriate LF energy. You want maximum CLEAN output. If "thump" means clean LF reproduction, then it looks as if your optimal setting will be close to the 180 degrees control position as you have described.

Hope that this helps.

Rick

 

[VanDaRo]

Been messing around with that sub for the last 2 days... I hooked it up "properly" using the main outs and have worked on positioning (every bit as important as you all said) and filtering options. Integrating cleanly and maintaining fidelity has been my priority.

So the ker-thunk and boomage has been turned way down and the final settings (or close to it) are:

Low pass @ 35Hz
High pass @ 70Hz
Phase @ 90
25Hz control @ 0
Volume @ 4.5

The Sequel IIs are very flat in response down to 40 Hz, at which point they start to slowly taper off and give it up at around 28Hz. So these settings were not entirely unexpected. Adding this sub to my system has really improved it. Bass drum whacks, double bass cellos, synths and other low frequency information comes through very, very cleanly. I strongly recommend this sub.

Happy, happy -- joy, joy !!

~VDR

 

[Big Al]

Moon,

That is the older version of an ASC Sub Trap. It really improved bass response.

 

[Satch]

New ASC Sub Trap for Depth i

I'm off tonight and playing around with the 18" square sub trap that came in late this afternoon... One reason that I wanted to try this sub trap is that my room is upstairs and there is a 24" crawl space between floors and with the Depth i spiked to a slab of granite on top of a rug and tile floor, well, I seemed to be getting more bass through my feet than through the gut where I think it belongs... So far so good, I'm able to crank the sub volume up and set the 25 Hz level from -10 db to -2 db. Ray Brown sounds awesome!

Sorry to hijack the thread Van. Hope you are hearing new things with your Depth i and the acoustic panels. Is your floor a concrete slab?

Satch

 

[JonFo]

...the final settings (or close to it) are:

Low pass @ 35Hz
High pass @ 70Hz
Phase @ 90
25Hz control @ 0
Volume @ 4.5
...
~VDR

VDR, glad it's working for you, but I hope you realize that those settings leave an octave out of the mix.

All energy below 35 is going to the Sub, and all energy above 70 is going to the Sequels, leaving everything in-between to make do with whatever the x-over slopes leave behind.

It's as if you put in a 53Hz filter set for -6dB.

Now, maybe you have a nasty room mode near 53Hz, as that's a common frequency to see resonances at in home-sized rooms.

But it's likely cutting to much elsewhere. Which is why Sub EQ is necessary, and products like the SMS-1 are recommended.

What you are doing is worth the effort, and clearly you like the results, which is what matters.

 

[VanDaRo]

JonFo,

I wounder if you have overlooked the crossover vs. filter discussion in the ML manual. Nevertheless, they strongly advise against setting the lo and hi filter settings too close to one another. Below is a graph of sub and main speaker performance with a speaker that gives up at 56Hz.

I am far from being done tweaking, and after seeing this graph, you'll say, "Why don't you simply set the hi pass filter to 40 Hz to match your Sequel IIs performance ?" -- My answer: Because it sounds better to my ear this way.

Here is the graphical representation of what happens when the low and hi pass filters are set to 40 and 70 respectively:


From page 10 in the Depth manual:

 

[VanDaRo]

BTW, I turned the lo-pass filtering to 30Hz and high to 40 Hz (also tweaked up the 25Hz control about 3 dB) -- will evaluate that change in more detail tomorrow when the wife and kids are out of the house !!! :music:

~VDR

 

[VanDaRo]

Well.... I didn't really like the way the 30/40 experiment went, so I decided to totally geek-out and pull a JonFo. Out comes the 1/6 octave test tones and the Radio Shack digital SPL meter.

Holy $&!^ !! My frequency response graphs were as ugly as can be. Everyone should do this experiment with their own gear -- I'll bet that you won't like what you see.

So I tweaked the settings, graphed several batteries of test and tweaked some more. And I ended up very close to where I started a couple days ago -- so my hearing isn't shot after all.

I established an 80 dB baseline with a 315 Hz test tone and left the volume knob on the preamp there for all tests. Settings for the graphed response are:

Low pass: 35
High pass: 70
25Hz boost: +6 dB
Sub volume: 4.4

Check out those b*tchin' spikes in the 36 thru 63 Hz region. OUCH !!

MUCH, MUCH MORE TWEAKING LEFT TO DO !!