ARC In Speakers...

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It lasted a good while. I'm used to it, like I said because of my prior experience with every other sub I've owned. I fully expect the amp on my bf210 to go out someday.

The depth i still plays fine most of the time. Every once in awhile it will start making a very loud popping noise. It's totally random and happens even when there is no signal coming in. I have it hooked up in my basement secondary home theater, where my old equipment goes. We still use it there and my kids haven't complained yet. It's used mostly for pc and Nintendo games down there.
I have a 17 year old Descent i and it started doing a similar thing like yours. I was able to isolate it to one of the drivers so I called ML and they recommended replacing. Unfortunately they wouldn't sell me one so I ended up buying a woofer from parts express and crossed my figures it would play nicely with the others. Worked out pretty good...fortunately this sub is used in a secondary system.
 
I have a 17 year old Descent i and it started doing a similar thing like yours. I was able to isolate it to one of the drivers so I called ML and they recommended replacing. Unfortunately they wouldn't sell me one so I ended up buying a woofer from parts express and crossed my figures it would play nicely with the others. Worked out pretty good...fortunately this sub is used in a secondary system.
Thats good to know. WIth my subwoofer Im pretty sure all 3 woofers make the noise, but I have to observe it again.
 
Not sure what you mean with together vs. separate? If you use the ethernet-type cable to temporarily connect both 15A's when running ARC-Genesis, it still measures (and corrects) each speaker independently. Connecting them just simplifies the procedure, but has no bearing on outcome.

Re adding delay to your subs (relative to the 15A's), that's called "time aligning" and is usually very beneficial. How are you actually measuring and adding appropriate delay? MiniDSP, or equivalent? The ultimate effect depends on where the subs are actually located relative to the mains. However, even if adjacent to the mains, there could still be a delay in the subs signal processing, which can be made worse depending upon the subs phase settings.

Complicating matters further, downloading and installing the 15A specific crossover filters for your BF212's can also have a significant effect.

I've been dealing with these multiple permutations (aka "tweaking options") for many years, and think I've gotten pretty close to optimizing the mains +sub(s) setup for my room. Of course, every room, acoustics, and setup is different.
Man I wish you come and help me get this right.
 
Its on the way
Also pickup a network cable to connect the two speakers together when running ARC. This saves a lot of time vs running ARC on each speaker separately. The way it works is, when the mic is in one spot, the sweeps run on one speaker and then immediately run on the second speaker. Then you move the mic to a different location.

But, I highly suggest just keeping the mic in the MLP location for all the sweeps the first time you run the app. Run the app, save the filter, load the filter, listen.

After you're comfortable with running the app is when you can move the mic to other positions. But if you're going to use a room correction app afterwards, I really don't see the point in multiple locations for the mic with ARC. I simply just keep the mic in one spot and run all five sets of sweeps (because we don't have the option to run fewer), because Dirac will be run after ARC.

Keep in mind that you can run ARC, save the session, then make changes to the settings as many times as you want without more measurements. I set the mic in the MLP and edit the saved ARC file changing one or two settings at a time, save the new settings with a different name, then load the filter and measure the result. It only takes a minute to make changes and measure with REW. I keep ARC and REW running the entire time. Quickest way to learn.
 
Also pickup a network cable to connect the two speakers together when running ARC. This saves a lot of time vs running ARC on each speaker separately. The way it works is, when the mic is in one spot, the sweeps run on one speaker and then immediately run on the second speaker. Then you move the mic to a different location.

But, I highly suggest just keeping the mic in the MLP location for all the sweeps the first time you run the app. Run the app, save the filter, load the filter, listen.

After you're comfortable with running the app is when you can move the mic to other positions. But if you're going to use a room correction app afterwards, I really don't see the point in multiple locations for the mic with ARC. I simply just keep the mic in one spot and run all five sets of sweeps (because we don't have the option to run fewer), because Dirac will be run after ARC.

Keep in mind that you can run ARC, save the session, then make changes to the settings as many times as you want without more measurements. I set the mic in the MLP and edit the saved ARC file changing one or two settings at a time, save the new settings with a different name, then load the filter and measure the result. It only takes a minute to make changes and measure with REW. I keep ARC and REW running the entire time. Quickest way to learn.

Also pickup a network cable to connect the two speakers together when running ARC. This saves a lot of time vs running ARC on each speaker separately. The way it works is, when the mic is in one spot, the sweeps run on one speaker and then immediately run on the second speaker. Then you move the mic to a different location.

But, I highly suggest just keeping the mic in the MLP location for all the sweeps the first time you run the app. Run the app, save the filter, load the filter, listen.

After you're comfortable with running the app is when you can move the mic to other positions. But if you're going to use a room correction app afterwards, I really don't see the point in multiple locations for the mic with ARC. I simply just keep the mic in one spot and run all five sets of sweeps (because we don't have the option to run fewer), because Dirac will be run after ARC.

Keep in mind that you can run ARC, save the session, then make changes to the settings as many times as you want without more measurements. I set the mic in the MLP and edit the saved ARC file changing one or two settings at a time, save the new settings with a different name, then load the filter and measure the result. It only takes a minute to make changes and measure with REW. I keep ARC and REW running the entire time. Quickest way to learn.
Ok sounds pretty simple. Do you eventually take measurements at other listening positions? I mostly listen to 2 channel music but also use my room to watch movies.
 
Ok sounds pretty simple. Do you eventually take measurements at other listening positions?
No, just one mic location for ARC. Then I use multiple mic locations with Dirac. I don't see an upside to multiple locations for the mic with ARC and Dirac.

So I use 1 mic setup for ARC only at the MLP, then use multiple mic setups for Dirac. The mic doesn't move after running ARC so I can go right into running Dirac starting with that mic location first.

If I wasn't using Dirac, then I would use multiple mic locations for ARC. There can be compelling arguments for using 1, 3, or more mic locations, but if only one person is listening to music, is more than one mic location necessary? Not for my setup. But if more than one person will be listening, and the user wants more than one person to have a "better" experience, then use more mic locations, but this can mean a compromised experience for some seating positions because - it's a compromise - within a range of response over a range of seating positions. It "can" be that, or it "can" be ok, depends on the room, layout, treatments, etc. I'm pointing this out because I stopped going nuts with lots of mic locations after many correction runs and learning how my room works. For example, I know there's a null above ear level and to the left of the seat left of MLP, so I avoid that spot because nobody is listening with their ears up there and that null doesn't affect anything so long as I don't measure it. But if I measured it then the correction apps want to "fix" something that really doesn't need fixing. So I only measure where ears are listening.

The best advice I know of is that if the mic cannot see the speaker, then it can only measure reflections. So the mic must always have a clear view of the speaker. In the case of measuring 7.1 setups with Dirac, and the seating has high backs, then the mic locations Dirac recommends using behind the seating below ear level simply do not work, the mic cannot see the front speakers. Common sense must prevail. Try it, check it, use what works for your room setup. Start simple, then go bigger. Buy low, sell high
 
Is there a way you know of for me to set time alignment without Room Perfect? I try to give RP the best chance to succeed before running it.

And noted lol, but 3 BF212s with Full range 15As makes my doors and windows scream for dear life with Organs, so maybe I'll stick to movies for now....not that those are any better lol
Just run Room Perfect. No need to run ARC first - rather the opposite. RP is very powerful and sophisticated system, it does not need any help from ARC. You can help it in the analogue domain by having subs and speakers placed properly.

All of the DRC systems will achieve very similar results in the bass region, and applying 2 different layers of filters is not recommended, unless you know exactly what you’re doing. You do not want to have 6dB added by ARC and another 6 by RP.

in the past I have experimented with Audyssey and ARC, graphs looked ruler flat, but bass was not correct.
 
No, just one mic location for ARC. Then I use multiple mic locations with Dirac. I don't see an upside to multiple locations for the mic with ARC and Dirac.

So I use 1 mic setup for ARC only at the MLP, then use multiple mic setups for Dirac. The mic doesn't move after running ARC so I can go right into running Dirac starting with that mic location first.

If I wasn't using Dirac, then I would use multiple mic locations for ARC. There can be compelling arguments for using 1, 3, or more mic locations, but if only one person is listening to music, is more than one mic location necessary? Not for my setup. But if more than one person will be listening, and the user wants more than one person to have a "better" experience, then use more mic locations, but this can mean a compromised experience for some seating positions because - it's a compromise - within a range of response over a range of seating positions. It "can" be that, or it "can" be ok, depends on the room, layout, treatments, etc. I'm pointing this out because I stopped going nuts with lots of mic locations after many correction runs and learning how my room works. For example, I know there's a null above ear level and to the left of the seat left of MLP, so I avoid that spot because nobody is listening with their ears up there and that null doesn't affect anything so long as I don't measure it. But if I measured it then the correction apps want to "fix" something that really doesn't need fixing. So I only measure where ears are listening.

The best advice I know of is that if the mic cannot see the speaker, then it can only measure reflections. So the mic must always have a clear view of the speaker. In the case of measuring 7.1 setups with Dirac, and the seating has high backs, then the mic locations Dirac recommends using behind the seating below ear level simply do not work, the mic cannot see the front speakers. Common sense must prevail. Try it, check it, use what works for your room setup. Start simple, then go bigger. Buy low, sell high
WOW great advice. As I'm sure you know, most of what you're advising is absolutely against what the manufacturers and quasi-auduophiles would buy BUT it makes perfect sense to me. I have 3 stinkin seats in my space. I'm ususally the only one listening to music (2 channel) but when its movie time, the wife chugs along. Two different animals I know but I want to get them both right. Just picked up the Marantz Cinema 50 but stinkin DIRAC isn't available yet so I'm using Audyssey MultEQ...which I disabled because it sounds horrible. Downloaded ARC Genesis but its useless until my PBK gets in. DIRAC seems to think its a good idea to not advertise how much it'll cost to download to my receiver so I'm like wtf. By now you're probably saying, this dude is all over the place...and DING DING DING you'd be right. I think I have a decent setup, in a decent room, with decent acoustic but without knowing how to adjust the measurements, whatever equipment I have doesn't matter. Grr
 
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WOW great advice. As I'm sure you know, most of what you're advising is absolutely against what the manufacturers and quasi-auduophiles would buy BUT it makes perfect sense to me. I have 3 stinkin seats in my space. I'm ususally the only one listening to music (2 channel) but when its movie time, the wife chugs along. Two different animals I know but I want to get them both right. Just picked up the Marantz Cinema 50 but stinkin DIRAC isn't available yet so I'm using Audyssey MultEQ...which I diabled because it sounds horrible. Downloaded ARC Genesis but its useless until my PBK gets in. DIRAC seems to think its a good idea to not advertise how much it'll cost to download it to my receiver so I'm like wtf. By now you're probably saying, this dude is all over the place...and DING DING DING you'd be right. I think I have a decent setup, in a decent room, with decent acoustic but without knowing how to adjust the measurements, whatever equipment I have doesn't matter. Grr
DIRAC is available on your new receiver? I'm wondering, is this coming out only for the new receivers? The one I'm using is probably about 4 years old.
 
DIRAC is available on your new receiver? I'm wondering, is this coming out only for the new receivers? The one I'm using is probably about 4 years old.
Yes they announced the new Cinema series receivers will have access to DIRAC and unfortunately won't be available for previous SRs.
 
DIRAC is available on your new receiver? I'm wondering, is this coming out only for the new receivers? The one I'm using is probably about 4 years old.
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Yes they announced the new Cinema series receivers will have access to DIRAC and unfortunately won't be available for previous SRs.
But you'll need to download it? Even if it was available for older units, I'm thinking my AVR may not be able to download it. It's got problems.
 
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