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Can i have a drink? About 10 years ago i replaced my yamaha rxv 1000 avr with my sunfire amp. They both measure 20-20khz . All this time i perceived the sunfire to sound better all this time it was just psychoacoustics. My crazy brain just fooling me... what a fool i must be. My wife is a psychologist. Does anyone else need to talk to someone? Her rates are reasonable.... :)
 
I take everything I said back

I just upgraded my AVR with a $4000 amp (audiogon) and WOW what a difference. Now I know what all the fuss is about.

The soundstage and imaging has improved at wisper volumes with no edgyness.

I hear a huge sonic signiture in the bigger amp. It's warmer, more natural sounding, not too forward but with lots of air. The bass is definately deeper and I find myself tapping on the floor along with the music. Definately easier to listen to.

I'll report back after some more listening
 
Last edited:
snyderkv said:
I take everything I said back

I just upgraded my AVR with a $4000 amp (audiogon) and WOW what a difference. Now I know what all the fuss is about.

The soundstage and imaging has improved at wisper volumes with no edgyness.

I hear a huge sonic signiture in the bigger amp. It's warmer, more natural sounding, not too forward but with lots of air. The bass is definately deeper and I find myself tapping on the floor along with the music. Definately easier to listen to.

I'll report back after some more listening
Click to expand...

Huh? Your AVR? I asked you what amp you used and you said it weighed 5x what mine weighed. Wow - what sort of AVR were you using?
 
snyderkv said:
I take everything I said back
Click to expand...

No, No. You were right all along. I just did a comparison between my high end system (costing tens of thousands of dollars) and my Bose sounddock with ipod source, and I couldn't tell any difference! Doing a stringent ABX comparison between them, there was absolutely no audible difference in sound quality. I am totally depressed now and am going to give away my high end system to goodwill, if they will take it.
 
Rich said:
I am totally depressed now and am going to give away my high end system to goodwill, if they will take it.
Click to expand...
I just changed my name to Goodwill, and yes, I will take it.........AND....I will take pictures! :)
 
Bevensee said:
Amplifier measurement is a very complex matter. There are a couple of quite interesting papers on Nelson Pass' homepage. The problem is that most measurements are done with a single (or at most two) tones present at the same time. But this does not properly account for the way various distortion phenomena are perceived by our ear/brain interaction.

Whereas I agree that many people underestimate the power that is required to avoid clipping, this alone does not explain why amplifiers sound so different at low levels. And "lumping" everything into a single distortion parameter does not tell much either. We all know that 2nd and 3rd order distortion is much more difficult to hear than higher order distortion at the same level.

Even Stereophile's measurements does not tell the whole story. They limit themselves to two-tone intermodulation effects. And already there it becomes very difficult to interpret the measurements.

Many of us find many tube amplifiers to sound less harsh at low level than many SS amps. This is often attributed to high-frequency roll-off. But why? There are several tube amps that measure flat to above 50 KHz, so surely high frequency roll-off can not be the reason.

There is one thing I find a bit strange: When an amp sounds clinical, we tend to name it neutral or uncolored. When an amp sounds warm, we tend to name it colored. Could it not be the other way around? That the clinical sound of some SS amps actually is a coloring from various distortion effects? And that the warm sound from a well-designed tube amp below clipping actually is from the lack of this distortion?

As long as we are measuring amplifiers with single or two-tone test signals, I doubt that we will be able to relate all sonic differences to measurements.
Click to expand...

I think you are dead on. I have often wondered the same thing. I am very curious now, and I have come to such a place in my college career where I might be able to model such a thing... mathematically. I have a couple ideas but I would like to talk to a couple of my professors to see if I am even right or just completely over my head which it probably going to be the answer. But may be a good topic for a senior thesis! haha
 
snyderkv said:
I take everything I said back

I just upgraded my AVR with a $4000 amp (audiogon) and WOW what a difference. Now I know what all the fuss is about.

The soundstage and imaging has improved at wisper volumes with no edgyness.

I hear a huge sonic signiture in the bigger amp. It's warmer, more natural sounding, not too forward but with lots of air. The bass is definately deeper and I find myself tapping on the floor along with the music. Definately easier to listen to.

I'll report back after some more listening
Click to expand...

Assuming you keep an open mind and ears, you may very well be posting something like this in the future. And it won't be April Fools. :cool:
 
JordanD said:
I think you are dead on. I have often wondered the same thing. I am very curious now, and I have come to such a place in my college career where I might be able to model such a thing... mathematically. I have a couple ideas but I would like to talk to a couple of my professors to see if I am even right or just completely over my head which it probably going to be the answer. But may be a good topic for a senior thesis! haha
Click to expand...
Sound like a good topic for a thesis! I would like to read it when it's done. BTW, which UNI do you study at, and what is your topic?
 
JordanD said:
I think you are dead on. I have often wondered the same thing. I am very curious now, and I have come to such a place in my college career where I might be able to model such a thing... mathematically. I have a couple ideas but I would like to talk to a couple of my professors to see if I am even right or just completely over my head which it probably going to be the answer. But may be a good topic for a senior thesis! haha
Click to expand...
If you manage to model it mathematically it would be interesting to see the coefficients of the Fourier Series representing the output, to find out which frequencies/harmonics are causing the most problem.
 
Hi Snyder,

NAD make some great sounding gear. Good luck and do report back.

GG
 
Bevensee said:
Sound like a good topic for a thesis! I would like to read it when it's done. BTW, which UNI do you study at, and what is your topic?
Click to expand...

Well I am not a senior yet so I have some time, although my adviser has been on me about picking an undergraduate research project. I go to the University of Nevada, Reno.
 
amey01 said:
NAD do make some great sounding kit, but what is he replacing with it? He hasn't disclosed anything other than the relative weight......
Click to expand...

Amey. Who cares? I guess the question is given the original responses why would he be replacing his current setup since all amps sound the same? Given that - do I care what the impressions are? Nope.
 
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