Amp for Martin Logan Ascent i Subs

[randallp]

Hello ML Owners!

I'm in the market for an amp to push the 10" subs of my Ascent i's. Here's what i'm looking for -

Power
Clean
Low Cost
Quite

I'd like to stay as low cost as possible due to budget. Please advise.

Thanks for all your help and recommendations!

Randall

 

[Rich]

We would love to help you. Please give us a clue as to how much power and how little cost you are looking for to power those woofers. Also maybe let us know what you are planning on powering the panels with. Realize that you will either need to get amps with a matching gain level as your panel amp, or you will need to put an in-line attenuator on to match the gain levels manually.

Having said all that, I highly recommend the model 2200 monoblocs from Outlaw Audio, which I use on my Ascent woofers. They are small and quiet, provide 200 watts per channel of clean power to the woofers and sell for $650 for a pair. That's the best value in a quality woofer amp that I have found.

Here is the link to their products webpage:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/index.html

 

[randallp]

We would love to help you. Please give us a clue as to how much power and how little cost you are looking for to power those woofers. Also maybe let us know what you are planning on powering the panels with. Realize that you will either need to get amps with a matching gain level as your panel amp, or you will need to put an in-line attenuator on to match the gain levels manually.

Having said all that, I highly recommend the model 2200 monoblocs from Outlaw Audio, which I use on my Ascent woofers. They are small and quiet, provide 200 watts per channel of clean power to the woofers and sell for $650 for a pair. That's the best value in a quality woofer amp that I have found.

Here is the link to their products webpage:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/index.html

Hi Rich,

I'm upgrading from a Denon AVR-4800 to a Denon 4308ci (should be here Wednesday). Without looking, I believe the subs in the Ascent i are 200 watts RMS...so I think your recommendation should be a fantastic start.

Thank you!

Randall

 

[eknuds01]

Hello ML Owners!

I'm in the market for an amp to push the 10" subs of my Ascent i's. Here's what i'm looking for -

Power
Clean
Low Cost
Quite

I'd like to stay as low cost as possible due to budget. Please advise.

Thanks for all your help and recommendations!

Randall

Outlaw is fine - lots of bang for the buck. I believe the newest Sound and Vision mag had a nice write up of a system that featured Outlaw products.

I'd also take a look at a used Rotel or Sunfire amp.

Erik

 

[sebrof2000]

Hello Randall,
I've been looking for an amp to bi-amp my Ascent i's with for a while now.
I am running them with a 75wpc Primare integrated, and am pleased with the sound, but...
I bought a Parasound HCA-1000A, 125wpc/200wpc into 4/8 ohms. Should be in my hands this weekend. Most of the Parasound amps have gain controls on the back, which is why I chose this amp. The new Halo amps have the gain controls as well.
I paid $300 delivered used from an Audiogon member - Goto parasound.com for parasound stuff, audiogon.com for lots of good used gear.
I had a Sunfire StereoII amp @ 325wpc/650wpc into 8/4 ohms. Believe it or not, the 75wpc Primare was louder (no bass with the Sunfire on the woofers and Primare on the panels, and way too much bass with the Primare on the woofers and the Sunfire on the panels. Go figure??).
I plan to post when I get the Parasound up and running. I'm expecting a subtle improvement in both bass and Mid/highs, but that remains to be seen.
Mike

 

[sebrof2000]

Hello Randall,

I plan to post when I get the Parasound up and running. I'm expecting a subtle improvement in both bass and Mid/highs, but that remains to be seen.
Mike

Well, got the Parasound in the system and powering the woofers yesterday and let everything warm up overnight. Off work today so I sat and listened early morning when it's nice and quiet:
The 125wpc Parasound does not have enough gain to mate with the 75wpc Primare integrated, even with the gain controls on the Parasound max'd out. It's close, but it's like the -3db switch is on and it's more like -6db or whatever. I assume it's a gain mismatch of the 2 amps. Otherwise it's that the pre-outs of the Primare are attenuated in some way, and I can't imagine why that would be. I did get a hint of the panels being cleaner, but that could simply be because the bass was attenuated so much it was just louder in comparison. Parasound makes a 200+wpc (HCA-1500A). I may try that some time.
FWIW - I also hooked only the Parasound to the Ascents (pre-out of the Primare to the Parasound to panels and woofers) and it sounded OK especially considering price, but the highs were distorting, even at moderate volume. Not a great match.
Makes me appreciate the Primare integrated that much more.
Mike

 

[TomD]

i am looking at the Parasound 275 (75w@8ohms, 2 ch)to drive a cinema i. The speaker is rated from 2.7 - 6 ohms and the amp is bridgeable to produce 200w and has a setting for 2-3/4/or 8 ohms. I am thinking that the 2-3 ohm setting will handle anything above that level and cover the speaker's requirements.

I am having a hard time finding something affordable for this center speaker and the 275 (new $500) seems to have the proper specs. However, a sales person at Tweeters told me that it is a "distribution amp" meant to drive cheaper in-wall speakers located throughout a home. He said it would not be suitable for the cinema i; he also does not sell Parasound and suggested a 3k Niels(sp?) amp. I am suspicious of his opinion and wonder if you would like to share your experience having looked into Parasound. There are no dealers near me where I can test it.

 

[Rich]

I am having a hard time finding something affordable for this center speaker and the 275 (new $500) seems to have the proper specs. However, a sales person at Tweeters told me that it is a "distribution amp" meant to drive cheaper in-wall speakers located throughout a home. He said it would not be suitable for the cinema i; he also does not sell Parasound and suggested a 3k Niels(sp?) amp. I am suspicious of his opinion and wonder if you would like to share your experience having looked into Parasound. There are no dealers near me where I can test it.

You would be absolutely justified in not trusting the Tweeter sales rep. Most of them I have dealt with knew less about high end audio than my cat. And to try to suggest that you need a $3k amp to power a center channel of a home theater borders on ridiculous.

I am not personally familiar with Parasound's products, except to know they have an excellent reputation. Looking at the specs for this amp -- it is bridgeable to 200 watts into 4 or 8 ohms and puts out a lot of current (30 amps per channel) -- I can't imagine it wouldn't do a fine job powering the cinema i center channel in a home theater. Of course, it would need to meld well sonically with the amps for the other channels, but other than that potential issue, I think it would work great.

 

[sebrof2000]

Hey TomD,
I would be careful with the 275 because it's not rated to be bridged into anything less than 8 ohms. From the 275's user's manual:
Mono Operation
We recommend an 8 ohm minimum speaker load for bridged mono operation.
For mono the Model 275 “bridges” the R channel to amplify only the positive half of the audio signal and the L channel to amplify only the negative
half of the audio signal. In effect, each channel “sees” only half of the speaker’s rated impedance, so that an 8 ohm speaker in bridged mono is only a 4 ohm load and a 4 ohm speaker in mono is only a 2 ohm load. This is why the mono power output is much higher than the sum of the L and R channel outputs for stereo operation.

My personal philosophy about bridging amps is that you're really not gaining a whole lot because the power supply of the amp is the bottleneck. For example, the 275 is rated at 200w bridged into 4 or 8 ohms. It may put out 200w but choke at the loud transients in the music/soundtrack. I would run only one channel (with the selector switch set to 2 ohms) and leave the other channel unconnected.That would give you 120 watts into the center channel.
Regarding Parasound, as you can see from my post the other day, I didin't find the HCA-1000A to be a good match with the Ascent i panels. It sounded like the amp was distorting in the high frequencies, where the impedance drops to the lowest point. As for the Cinema, nobody knows until you try it. The 275 may work out great.
Mike

 

[Horchem1972]

Try a used Bryston 4B

You may want to look at a used Bryston.It would have to be an older 4B though.They can usually be had for $500-$700 on Ebay.They are built like tanks with tremendous headroom.:music:

 

[TomD]

Thanks for the information. I read the manual and was under the impression that the amp could be bridged to obtain 200w and has a switch that can be set at 2-3 ohms, even bridged. I also interpreted it to mean that selecting the 2-3 ohm setting will allow it to run the cinema i that is rated at 2.7 - 6 ohms, and all the while running cooler than if set at 4 ohms. All this with a damping factor of 150!

 

[TomD]

You may want to look at a used Bryston.It would have to be an older 4B though.They can usually be had for $500-$700 on Ebay.They are built like tanks with tremendous headroom.:music:

YES! BRYSTON!:bowdown: If I were a pagan I would be worshiping one right now. If I had one it would immediately and without hesitation replace my trusty ol' Carver TFM-25 running my mains (aeon i).

Sebrof - Can you actually use only one side of an amp to run a mono speaker (center). I would love to use the above mentioned Carver to run the center by using only one channel. After all, it is running the 4 ohm aeon i's effortlessly. However, I was informed, again by the Twweeter salesperson, that running only one channel, without anything connected to the other, will absolutely destroy the amp. Unfortunately, the Carver is not bridgeable 4 ohms.

Thanks, this information is soooo important right now.