Aerius i to Source? Upgrade?

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beefchowmein

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I did a quick search and saw a few post regarding Aerius i upgrading to Ascent. And other post of Source upgrade to Summit, etc.

Just curious if anyone upgraded from Aerius i to the Source? Would that be consider an upgrade/downgrade/sidestep?
 
I did a quick search and saw a few post regarding Aerius i upgrading to Ascent. And other post of Source upgrade to Summit, etc.

Just curious if anyone upgraded from Aerius i to the Source? Would that be consider an upgrade/downgrade/sidestep?

Aerius i == Aeon i == Vista.

The Source would probably be a downgrade...maybe not a full step.

With the newer better panel, and better integration, the Vista is probably a 1/2 step up, so I'd guess the Source is a 1/2 step down.
 
Hello,
I agree. Much smaller Panel and lower crossover point to where the Panel goes to the Woofer. Moreover, the Source uses the same Gen.2 Panel that your Aerius i uses so you will not even upgrade in that respect.

Really the only advantage I can think of is having a much newer Panel so you will not need to replace your Panel nearly as soon. Sources have been sold at a steep discount at BB/Magnolia so it would make for a fantastic Surround Speaker should you want to segue to HT.
Cheers,
JJ
 
Hola...everything is a matter of liking...my ears tell me that the Source is a better sounding speaker than the Aerius i. The bass is more articulate, and the new panel (smaller holes) has more detail and dynamics, even that it is smaller in size, but bigger in sound. The Source are one the best sounding speakers, up to $ 3000.00 and honored by The Absolute Sound mag. as best buy at that price range...they are better sounding balanced between the woofer and panel. It is an air frame design, with tons of resolution. It is my liking, not necessary yours...it is a better design with Vojtko crossover too...happy listening, trust your ears!
Roberto.
 
Hey Roberto, that "Vojtko" crossover thing is just ML marketing fluff. Joe Vojtko is the ML guy who designs their crossovers. They have never explained what is special or unique about them so I take that to be just another marketing gimmick.
 
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The source is a little gem....However,

How big is your room? If it is big enough, you can get better sound for the $ if you get a used logan such as an Ascent or even a Vantage for similar/ marginally more money.

And yes, the crossover has a fancy name, but it has steadily improved integrating the panel and the woofer with each generation.
 
Hey Roberto, that "Vojtko" crossover thing is just ML marketing fluff. Joe Vojtko is the ML guy who designs their crossovers. They have never explained what is special or unique about them so I take that to be just another marketing gimmick.

Hola Bernard...I do not think so...I met him when I visited the plant at the factory in 2001 with Brent Hefley, my Martin Logan sales executive at that time, and he took me for a ride, and visited a part of the plant where only prototypes were there...I had my first contact with the self power woofer type like the Vantages and Summits are now, some with two woofers, of 8" like the array that are at the Purity model...but you have the benefit to believe what you like...if you think Martin Logan crossovers are gimmick, it is your right, but I do think that they do a very good job...like the crossover at the Spires, and the Summits model had to go to the test bench and now we have the Summits X...Mr. Vojtko is a very dedicated electronic person with the aid of a team...all of them about the same age, and also graduated from the same University, so they share a good relationship and know each other very well...they are there...designing for us!...all new Martin Logan products...they have a super lab with tons of good electronic tools and what they do is search for the right frequency cut for a specific model with those components. air core coils and great capacitors...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
Hello,
Roberto, I thought the Source as the rest of the Design Series ESL Models used the Gen 2 Panel?
Cheers,
JJ

Hola...this is what Martin Logan says about the Source:
Source is the world's most affordable high-performance hybrid electrostatic loudspeaker. Incorporating ultra-high-resolution AirFrame™ technology (originally developed for MartinLogan's Summit loudspeaker) Source is capable of an exceptionally dynamic and realistic performance. An 8-inch woofer, MiniETC™ (Energy Transfer Coupler) spikes, and high-end crossover engineering further reinforce Source's high-end pedigree. The result? A stellar performer at an exceptional price.

MartinLogan's advanced AirFrame™ technology and MicroPerf Generation 2 diaphragm electrostatic transducer cover the audible acoustic range with unprecedented high-frequency accuracy and low-level sonic detail. A perfectly integrated, MartinLogan engineered high-resolution 8-inch woofer supplies an authoritative bass performance with extreme precision.

State-of-the-art audio transformer and crossover engineering ensure a transparent link from amplifier to electrostatic panel and woofer. Source's crossover employs a proprietary Vojtko™ topology for vanishingly low distortion and seamless driver integration. This precision-tuned network preserves miniscule sonic nuances while handling the full dynamics of any source with unparalleled source, precision, clarity, and openness.
A Curvilinear Line Source electrostatic transducer.
CLS™ Generation 2 Electrostatic Panel

Innovative manufacturing techniques enabled MartinLogan to produce the original Curvilinear Line Source panels, the first wide-range electrostatic drivers to deliver good horizontal sound dispersion without sacrificing overall sound quality or reliability. CLS Generation 2 builds on that success with advanced diaphragm and stator technologies that significantly enhance speaker efficiency and dynamics.

Our new thin-film plasma-deposition process applies an improved conductive coating to the ultra-low-mass PET (polyethylene terathylate) diaphragm for superior adhesion and abrasion resistance, as well as a better impedance characteristic. MicroPerf stators expose more of the diaphragm surface, dramatically expanding effective radiating area without increasing panel size.
MicroPerf Stators

Although stators are the elements of an electrostatic driver that are supposed to stand still, they carry the audio signals that do the work of propelling the diaphragm back and forth to move air and produce sound. Because the stators sandwich the diaphragm between them, they must be perforated to allow sound to pass through. Yet they must also be rigid enough to remain absolutely stationary despite the strong electrostatic forces pushing and pulling at them during operation.

MartinLogan's MicroPerf design optimizes this tradeoff by reducing the size of the individual holes and using many more of them than in a traditional electrostatic panel. MicroPerf almost doubles effective diaphragm radiating area without compromising structural integrity. The resulting increase in output capability and efficiency allows a panel to be made much smaller without sacrificing performance – or to enjoy a substantial leap in bandwidth and dynamics without growing larger.
Parts of a MartinLogan AirFrame
MartinLogan AirFrame.

A) Top Strut
B) Compression Rod
C) Rod Isolator
D) ESL Transducer Isolator
E) Aluminum Side Pillar
AirFrame™ Technology

Source's electrsotatic panels are secured to speaker cabinets using MartinLogan's AirFrame technology. AirFrames, manufactured from aerospace-grade billet and extruded aluminum alloy, make the panels extremely rigid without obstructing playable surface area or interfering with their dipole sound radiation. At the same time, they provide electrical and acoustical isolation, minimizing intermodulation distortion caused by vibration and resonance. Overall, AirFrames enhance imaging, low-level sonic detail, accuracy, and efficiency.
High-Rigidity, High-Excursion Woofer

Source's advanced-technology high-rigidity, high-excursion paper cone 8-inch woofer achieves the very low distortion necessary for proper blending with MartinLogan electrostatic panels.
Vojtko™ Crossover

Carefully hand-built using only the finest air-core coils, the crossover employ's MartinLogan's proprietary Vojtko topology for vanishingly low distortion and seamless driver integration. This precision-tuned network preserves even the most microscopic sonic nuances while handling the full dynamics of any source.
Dipole Sound Radiation
Dipole sound radiation.

The sound we hear from a loudspeaker is a combination of direct radiation from it to our ears and reflections off of room surfaces – walls, floor, and ceiling. How our brains integrate all this information is far from simple. Depending on the angle of incidence to the ears and the arrival-time difference between direct and reflected sound, reflections can either blur detail and stereo imaging or enhance the natural impression of depth and openness.
Adjustable Base

Base setting for a sitting position. Base setting for a standing position.

Quick, tool-free rotation of the base on the Purity and Source provides robust setup flexibility that optimizes vertical dispersion to accommodate any listening position—whether sitting to standing.

True dipole speakers, such as electrostatic panels, have long been noted for their near-ideal radiation patterns. They send very little sound to the sides, thereby minimizing side-wall reflections with short arrival times that tend to interfere with perception of the direct sound. Their strong rear radiation, however, produces a generous amount of ambience-enriching later-arriving reflections off the wall behind them.
Easy Installation Low-Voltage Power Supply

A low-voltage DC power supply eliminates the need for a traditional, heavy IEC power cord.
Toolless Binding Posts

MartinLogan's proprietary toolless binding posts make cable connection and management easy.
Unique Adjustable Base Optimizes Listening

Easily adaptable for listening in a sitting or standing position, Source incorporates an innovative rotating and removable base allowing user adjustment from 1 to 13 degrees of rake (tilt) to control vertical wave launch. Additionally, MiniETC spikes allow for further fine-tuning of rake.
Energy Transfer Coupler Spikes

The Source is supplied with sturdy, 1/4-20 MiniETC™ spikes, which can be used in place of the standard feet to enhance stability on thick carpets or to create tighter coupling between speaker and floor.
On the other hand...I do trust my ears, not in specs!!! happy listening,
Roberto.
 
Roberto, I never said that Martin Logan crossovers were a gimmick; I do after all have ML speakers. All I was implying (not so well, perhaps) was that using the name "Vojtko" was a gimmick used in their marketing; why do they not just call it a "Joe" crossover? Does not sound so exotic, does it?

In any case, this is irrelevant. Happy listening !
 
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Roberto, I never said that Martin Logan crossovers were a gimmick; I do after all have ML speakers. All I was saying was that using the name "Vojtko" was a gimmick used in their marketing; why do they not just call it a "Joe" crossover? Does not sound so exotic, does it?

In any case, this is irrelevant. Happy listening !

Mr. Bernard, please excuse my bad and missed understanding...I see your point of view, the Vojtko crossovers are, as I think, trade mark of Martin Logan...I think that only ML uses them and yes, are very advertised by ML, and the name is Mr. Joe´s last name: Vojtko. Again, please excuse me!!!...I remember when I visited the plant, I sow the prototype of the center channel Theater model...and they where discussing how to make the stand for it. It was an old building with tons of space, fulled with different sound spaces and rooms. Very interesting place. Of course they hide a lot of stuff from me, you never know when you are going to have a spy around...you know, some guys from Costa Rica are coming to see this place????!!!!...all I can say, as I recall, they were very nice and kind...as all Martin Logan staff is now. I saw at that time, Gayle´s system, he had the stunning Statement with the Theater as center, and Script as rears...with Wadia cd player, as I recall...in another room, he had small tubed mono blocks driving Aeons i...back to the no longer Kansas factory, I was shock to see how green ML is...everything is bio-degradable, including the paint...the wood for the cabinets are from Canada, and they are specially made with pine wood, in a such way that the density of the whole thickness is the same...very difficult to do this, because usually, the center of the table is with this type of material, is where you have more density. The factory of this kind of wood tables with 1" thick first goes to Chicago where a special drill cuts this wood in special shapes like a puzzle. There are no screws securing the woods together, only special glue too, that expands and compress depending of the temperature environment. A lot of research, uh?...warm regards from Costa Rica,
Roberto.
 
Hello,
Roberto, I do agree that the Aluminum Air Frame is nice, but the Source does use the same generation Panel (Gen.2) as the Aerius i as I had thought.

In this case, the Source uses a much smaller Panel which is crossed over at a much higher frequency to the Woofer than the Aerius. In which case, it is hard to see it as an upgrade aside from the Panel being much newer.
Cheers,
JJ
 
Hello,
Roberto, I do agree that the Aluminum Air Frame is nice, but the Source does use the same generation Panel (Gen.2) as the Aerius i as I had thought.

In this case, the Source uses a much smaller Panel which is crossed over at a much higher frequency to the Woofer than the Aerius. In which case, it is hard to see it as an upgrade aside from the Panel being much newer.
Cheers,
JJ

Hola Jungle Jack...The Aerius i does not uses the smaller holes at the panel...uses the old technology...the panel is smaller in size but bigger in sound because it is the new panel from ML same as Summits, CLX, Vantage, Spire, Vista and Purity. More area of the diaphragm is exposed to the air, than the Aerius i. Just listen to them and you perhaps will agreed with me. It is a newer design and improved at the bass cabinet too. I think it is a better speaker overall. Please do not get me wrong here...I do like a lot the Aerius i, even that they have over 15 years now or perhaps more. But dynamics and inner detail, nuances, are easer to listen at the Source. in other words, easer to listen what your favorite musician(s) are playing for you...Trust your ears and give them a try!...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
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Hola Jungle Jack...The Aerius i does not uses the smaller holes at the panel...uses the old technology...the panel is smaller in size but bigger in sound because it is the new panel from ML same as Summits, CLX, Vantage, Spire, Vista and Purity. More area of the diaphragm is exposed to the air, than the Aerius i. Just listen to them and you perhaps will agreed with me. It is a newer design and improved at the bass cabinet too. I think it is a better speaker overall. Please do not get me wrong here...I do like a lot the Aerius i, even that they have over 15 years now or perhaps more. But dynamics and inner detail, nuances, are easer to listen at the Source. in other words, easer to listen what your favorite musician(s) are playing for you...Trust your ears and give them a try!...happy listening,
Roberto.

The source are a very good speaker

They sound very clean , I put the kettle on for a cup of tea the other day and never heard it boil yet I thought the volume was really low I bet the source has way less distortion than older models

I think the source look sleek and contemporary compared to the ugly old fashioned ones with old grandpa wood stuck to them . Thats why I never bought used older yet better speakers
 
From the ML site....

Aerius i: 42" (106.7cm) CLS™ electrostatic transducer
---
Aeon i: 37" (94cm) Generation 2 CLS™ electrostatic transducer;
Ascent i: 48" (122cm) Generation 2 CLS™ electrostatic transducer
---
Source/Purity: 28" Generation 2 CLS™ electrostatic transducer
Vista/Vantage: 40" XStat™ CLS™ electrostatic transducer
Spire/Summit x: 44" XStat™ CLS™ electrostatic transducer

Interesting...even though the Source is a latest generation product, it uses an older panel design, but still a generation ahead of the Aerius i.

Unless your ears tell you otherwise, I wouldn't swap out the Aerius i for a pair of Source.
 
Hola Chicos...I have a power point presentation of the new air frame design of the Summits. You can see what Martin Logan says about the new technology regarding panels. Source has this kind of tech, only vacuum bonding is not part of the panel, but it is made of the newer coating made of aluminum with a special adhesive at atomic level. Before were other metals and different adhesive at the panel to make it conductive. The newer panels the diaphragm is so light, that responses to the most little signal and fast. This diaphragm weights less than the air that it moves. Please, if you want this presentation, PM me with your email and I will forward it to you. I would make the change with not dude about it.My ears tells me this. Also I have the review at The Absolute Sound of the Source. If someone wants it, please PM me...happy listening,
Roberto.
 
thanks for the great discussion and input. I ended up moving on from the Aerius i after all. In fact, leaving the ML family:(
I found a pair of clean Quad 57 instead. Still staying with the ESL family. Currently the Quad is in battle with the wife. She's still getting used to having two "vintage sofa-ish/ retro heater" looking things in the middle of the room. I do love the sound it presents. We will see how it plays out. If the wife wins, I might be coming back to the ML family (hopefully at spire or summit by that point). I guess it would be a win win for me regardless!!
 
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