Adios Osama Bin Laden!

[Gordon Gray]

Justin,

You make some valid, logical points but I must say, with all due respect, your country wasn't attacked where that attack caused the death of 3,000 innocent people.

I'm about as non violent as it comes but I don't think you can empathize with the collective feelings all Americans have had since 9/11.

And yes, I, like you, wish we were a kinder, gentler, less violent society where attacks like 9/11 never occur but it is what it is.

Gordon

 

[User211]

London was attacked, Gordon, though not to the same extent.

I disagree with your assertion, though. I spent 5 days in NYC in July 2004. I went to Ground Zero. I visited the church nearby and read the letters of those who had lost loved ones. Tears streamed from my eyes.

I've attached three snaps I took, including one of the bell our country gave to yours, and one of Ground Zero taken from the mandatory helicopter ride.

Believe me, I can empathise.

 

[Satch]

Justin,

Thanks for posting those photos. Very well done and emotional images.

Ray

 

[twich54]

I told my 5yr old that we killed a man for being a mass killer and she didnt get it, she said it didnt make sense to do what we are upset he did....but then she isnt raised in the eye for an eye mentality, we dont want her to grow up in a world of one eyed peers.

I told my 10 month old grandson......we got the SOB........he smiled !

 

[Gordon Gray]

Justin,

I was not questioning your ability to have strong, personal emotions about that terrible event. Nor am I questioning your character and your ability to empathize with the senseless tragedies that occur in this crazy, f**d up world.

All I was trying to say, and obviously didn't do it very well, is that people who have something tragic happen (figuratively) in their back yard will likely react differently, and have different memories and long term feelings, than those who didn't have it happen in their back yard.

I certainly recall the awful train attack in your country but couldn't personalize nor internalize my emotions the way I did regarding the events on 9/11.

Both reactions are equally valid and sincere. To repeat, I share your view that terrorist events, such as those that occurred on your homeland and ours, will hopefully not be repeated in the future.

Events such as 9/11, the attack on your homeland, etc. does bring out a side of humanity that is not at all positive and counter productive to the universal goal of having a world where we all can learn to peacefully co exist and help each other in times of crisis, without inflicting pain and harm on each other.

End of soap box.

Best,

Gordon

 

[Rich]

As one who witnessed 9/11 firsthand, from just a few blocks away, here are my thoughts. For me, this is not a time for jubilation or celebration, but a time for reflection, contemplation and remembrance. Many wonderful and beloved people died that day in an act of senseless violence. That act had no purpose except to spur on more violence, which is exactly what it accomplished. Ten more years of bloodshed and violence and many lives lost, many of them innocent civilians, all finally culminating in bin Laden's murder.

The murder of bin Laden is simply the logical and expected conclusion of that chapter in our history, much as Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the logical conclusions of the story that began with the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I have no problem with “eye for an eye” retribution in situations like this. But it isn’t something I rejoice in. More like a necessary evil of life among humans, many of whom are more animalistic in nature than our civilization belies. There are people in this world who will respect nothing less than overwhelming force and violence, and there are times when it must be applied to keep the greater peace. For that reason, I don't agree with Justin's sentiments above. I think this is something we absolutely had to do, and we absolutely had to advertise it once it was done.

But it won’t bring back the dead, and the celebrations must be tempered with the respect for what we have lost and admiration for those who are the true heroes in life. Ordinary guys who do extraordinary things. Every day.

I will also say that it was a very gutsy move by our President to make the call for that hit. If things were to have gone wrong, he could have looked really bad and that alone could have cost him the next election. I notice the difference in tone between what folks from the previous administration (Bush and Cheney), as well as McCain, have said about Obama's actions (all very congratulatory), vs. what is being said by the current candidates for the republican nomination for '12. Very sad. These candidates can't put aside their political ambitions for one single day to congratulate the president on a job well done and give him an ounce of recognition for his accomplishment. Very sad.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Regarding your closing sentence my friend, what else is new?

Sad indeed.

GG

 

[Kevin]

What is being said by the current candidates? I have seen and read congratulatory statements from Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty, Bachmann, Palin and Santorum. Not saying that nothing has been said, I just haven't seen much in the way of criticism and I can't imagine that I wouldn't have seen it while watching Morning Joe the past few mornings. The only things in the way of much criticism I have heard is that we gave him a traditional Islamic burial and a good number of mistatements about what exactly occured. But if you think it is only Republicans playing politics, then please consider Nancy Pelosi's statements.

Nancy Pelosi, press conference, September 7, 2006:

Even if Osama bin Laden is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done … is done. And even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.

Nancy Pelosi, earlier today:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. … I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. … [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic….

 

[rockeratheart]

Even the Dalai Lama suggested killing bin Laden was justified.

 

[Rich]

What is being said by the current candidates? I have seen and read congratulatory statements from Huckabee, Romney, Pawlenty, Bachmann, Palin and Santorum.

Out of all of them, only Romney and Pawlenty were classy enough to give any credit at all to the current President. Bachman, Palin, and Santorum went pointedly out of their way to not mention Obama's name in their public statements on this event.

 

[Kevin]

OK, well it's nice to know that not all of the 2012 candidates have issued statements that you find objectionable. Also, apparently you have a problem not so much with what they said in their statements but with what they didn't say. They didn't mention Obama's name in their statements. I for one think they should have offered kudos. He did a brave thing in carrying out the mission in the way in which it was done. If something had gone horribly wrong, and there were chances of that happening, he would have been blamed by some of his political opponents for the mishap. I think this sort of stuff is pathetic political gaming, but the right wing is far from being the only ones that play it.

I think Obama should have mentioned Bush's effort towards the assassination of Osama in his speech, others in his administration have done so. After all, even Leon Panetta has come out with a statement that the harsh interrogation techniques employed under Bush provided the first crucial clues towards the finding of Osama. Not an ounce of recognition, very sad indeed. Perhaps this is why some of the 2012 republican candidates have felt the need to only thank our military and intelligence agencies??

 

[User211]

I find the differing stories about what actually happened during that raid rather alarming. And they are coming out of the Whitehouse. Not good. It is making them look rather incompetent and certainly inconsistent over an important issue. It'll only fuel doubters and conspiracy theorists.

Also, for a pre-planned mission, where only one person returned fire, the need to shoot Osama in the head seems completely unwarranted and has prevented the release of "evidence" that the man has really been killed.

The Archbishop of Canterbury (an esteemed member of the Church Of England) has made a fairly controversial statement.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Justin,

I don't think anyone will ever know, for certainty, what really went down except for those SEALS who were there, and they aren't going to be on 60 Minutes or the equivalent thereof.

For better or worse, I'm sure a lot of "instinct / training" was in the mix.

How do you or anyone else know, without a doubt, what really occurred within the context of that 45 minutes? Did Osama put his hands up in the air or did it appear he was reaching for a weapon? Or did he do something else that could be seen as threatening to those who were present?

I do agree with the President's decision to not release photos. And I do question the positive / negative aspects of this action if he were taken alive.

This event, as it came down, does bring a certain sense of closure to this issue. Whether it is good or bad in the long term remains to be seen.

My personal take is good.

As for the conspiracy folks, I really don't care. The whole "birther" crowd regarding Obama's birth certificate, is one example, and is frankly disgusting.

We can all interpret any information regarding any action and come to our own conclusions. I, for one, am more than ready to put this episode in history to bed.

And I don't need a gruesome picture of someone missing half their skull to support that position. It would, had it been made public, undoubtedly inflame and continue to ignite the very thing we all strive to eliminate. Violence begets violence.

I believe you inferred that in Post No. 16.

Gordon

 

[Kevin]

I think it was a kill on sight mission from the start. This is what Eric Holder, the attorney general, said sometime ago about what the administrations plans were if it ever captured Osama.

“You’re talking about a hypothetical that will never occur. The reality is that we will be reading Miranda rights to the corpse of Osama bin Laden. He will never appear in an American courtroom. That’s the reality. ... He will be killed by us, or he will be killed by his own people so he’s not captured by us. We know that.”

They knew that? So is Holder a brilliant clairvoyant or was this just the plan from the beginning?

Personally, if it was a kill on sight mission, I think it was the right call. Why put our men in any greater danger just to keep this creep alive? Without harsh interrogation methods used on him, he was never going to be a cooperative source of information.

 

[rockeratheart]

I was watching the news and caught an "update" of details concerning the raid. We all know soldiers are trained to observe and react instantly. If bin Laden was in the room with one of his wives, who was charging the seals, wouldn't it make sense that waiting to see what bin Laden would do, or was doing, would be a potentially fatal mistake? I'm sure those soldiers were expecting the possibility of bin Laden detonating explosives if he felt he wasn't going to survive. There are so many factors that these soldiers consider. Also, I'm sure most of the details will never be fully explained, or trusted as true.

If those details are, in fact, what happened.


When will this raid first be used as part of a video game?

Ben

 

[twich54]

Gordon, good post (#33).......I concur......lets get on with the more important matters at hand !