A sign of bad economic times...

[eknuds01]

That just makes WAY too much sense......I don't think we have a Gov't capable of pulling it off ! ....but....I hope I'm wrong !

You are right, Dave. Reasonable people (aka the American citizens) recognize the deplorable state of US healthcare. But we aren't dealing with reasonable people - we're dealing with politicians.

The healthcare system, in my opinion, is set up to fail. Doctors aren't compensated (in my opinion) to improve one's health. Instead most of the cost is tied up in diagnosing the problem and treatment; it doesn't appear that much money is spent on preventative care. Much of expenses are related to treating chronic diseases for very long periods of time. Then you have the insurance companies. Doctors, and this comes from a friend who practices medicine, told me that they no longer work for patients - they work for the insurance companies. The amount they pay for liability insurance is truly staggering. I read an article that stated that 50% of doctors would rather be in another profession - the red tape and attrition with the insurance companies is strangling them, and the patients.

There also seems to be a lack of clinics where people run to for help (or treatment) instead of the ER. Maybe if we had more walk-in clinics, ERs would be stressed a lot less (?)

Is it me, or do hospitals not compete in terms of cost? For instance, if I wanted a physical - can I call Hospital A and get a quote and then call Hospital B and request the same info?

You'd think they this country (or government) would have some really smart people come up with a simple, efficient, and cost-effective plans to lower health care costs and make affordable, quality, care accessable to most people. But it always seems to get worse, and costs go higher and higher each every year.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Yet you don't seem to mind paying for my police protection, fire protection, k-12 schooling, and on and on. These are "socialized" government programs that benefit all of us and insure education and protection for every citizen. And though they are government run and aren't perfect, they do a pretty darn good job most of the time.

I am not talking about a completely government run health care system. I am talking about government insuring that all of its citizens have access to basic health care at a reasonable cost.

Rich,

You are wrong...I don't want to pay for ANYTHING YOU GET! If you get it you should pay for it! Guess I am just an ass of a capitalist. If you pay property taxes and/or sales tax then most of the things you mention above are covered and you are paying for yours and I am paying for mine. That is the way it should be. Doesn't it feel GREAT to be self reliant! Fewer and fewer people are willing to take care of themselves these days. They want someone else to do it for them...that is not me. I don't want hand outs from anyone for anything.

On the second part is seems we agree as I did state that some sort of govt. pooling system where they stay out of the running of the care but provide some sort of basic coverage is the goal. Actually they do a lot of that already, if you look for care then you can find it.

So, while there might be 40 million people (out of 300 million) that don't have INSURANCE there are probably only about 10 to 15 million who are in that situation for any significant amount of time or for reasons outside their control. The rest are healthy workers who have chosen NOT to have insurance OR people who are briefly between jobs and lack coverage temporarily.

I don't think anyone is lacking for care, only insurance. Hospitals will see everyone that shows up (just ask Joey, he is working his butt off to see them all), so there is no lack of care... There are also TONS of local programs for homeless, indigent, and illegal people. It is funny how the media always talk about how so many people are "uninsured", they never talk about how there is care for most all these people in some form or another. Yea, they might actually have to LOOK for it, but it does exist.

KWR: As to the greatness of the Australian system, you are correct I have no knowledge of this. Michael Moore did not come to your country to make a movie about how great your system is, only Canada and Cuba. Maybe Australia is the true panacea and we should all just pack our bags and move down under. Seems like nice folks down under!

I always liked the look of New Zealand personally. Looks like a beautiful and laid back place to live. That would be nice. Probably some good social programs to take care of me too. Oh, wait, I was told you can't even move there if you don't have a sponsor...maybe I won't be going after all.

Nice that you also mentioned GB/France/etc. etc.... None of those countries spends close to the money (per capita) that the US spends on its military. If we spent 1/10 as much on our military as we spend we would not be able to do the things that we do (good or bad...I know and that is NOT where I want to take this thread) but we WOULD be able to do more of the social programs that so many think are what make a country great. Good or bad we spend a whole bunch of money on our military and I believe a much higher percentage when compared with the other countries mentioned. Is that a bad thing...it may be, but it is where ALL our administrations have chosen to put funding.

I certainly don't have the answers, but I know doctors, nurses and pharmacists were MUCH happier when we had a cash based system with more catastrophic insurance type coverage being the norm. I don't know anyone happy with the VA system (I am sure there are some, but not people I know), and it seems our medicare system is rough to be in too (as I watch my folks participate, or try to). I just don't believe that government is the answer to anyone's personal problems. It is a philosophical difference. I am a capitalist/libertarian. If you are a fascist/socialist that is fine, it is just not me. Oh, not speaking to you directly here Rich or KWR...just in general. I realized I quoted you (Rich) at the top of this but only the first two paragraphs were really directed at your points.

It is not my desire to rile anyone up over this, just saying how I see it as a disabled American, who is more able than most people I know.

 

[kwr]

KWR: As to the greatness of the Australian system, you are correct I have no knowledge of this. Michael Moore did not come to your country to make a movie about how great your system is, only Canada and Cuba. Maybe Australia is the true panacea and we should all just pack our bags and move down under. Seems like nice folks down under!

I was somewhat at pains to point out that the Australian system had faults but that there is a genuine effort to provide an accesible high level of health care for all.

Just to haul this back on topic - if Joey is watching - how much of the extra ER workload is minor stuff that should be dealt with elsewhere? Seems to be the bane of ERs worldwide and usually gets worse with a deteriorating economy.

Kevin

 

[Pcar928fan]

I was somewhat at pains to point out that the Australian system had faults but that there is a genuine effort to provide an accesible high level of health care for all.

Just to haul this back on topic - if Joey is watching - how much of the extra ER workload is minor stuff that should be dealt with elsewhere? Seems to be the bane of ERs worldwide and usually gets worse with a deteriorating economy.

Kevin

Kevin,

I bet it is a lot! Unfortunately that is where folks are going when they don't have the family doc connection, cash or insurance. They know they can get care at the hospital w/o having to provide to much info or payment.

On the plus side hospitals have been seeing this for some time and have worked (at least locally) to set up a "clinic" within the ER, so they can get those folks triaged (did I spell that right?) and moved over to the "clinic" side of the system vs. the emergent side taking up space needed by those seriously ill or injured.

It is certainly not the best way to handle it and it is causing lots of Interns to work really, really hard but I don't think that is a big change, they always have worked 60+ hours a week! This is all my observations locally. We also have some very good indigent clinics in town as well as city run clinics for the illegal population, so Austin, TX is doing its best to provide quality healthcare for all. I don't think we are the only community doing that.

Again it comes down to insurance vs. medical care. We have care for virtually everyone that wants it, insurance not so much. I also agree w/ you Kevin that in down economic times this becomes a bigger problem. There are no easy fixes on this one for ANY country!