A sign of bad economic times...

[Pcar928fan]

Len,

While there are many folks who do not have insurance these people do not lack for health care. They are at Joey's and other hospitals all across the country. They receive care regardless of their ability to pay for it. They in fact receive the best medical care that can be had anywhere in the world because they are here in the US.

I suspect most folks receive that care faster than they would in any country with socialized medicine too.

Do you know that when they quote the stat about lack of health insurance you would be in that pool if you had one WEEK during the year where you changed jobs and didn't have health care for that period? Did you know that if you CHOOSE (because you are young, healthy and bullet proof) not to have health insurance you would count in that number of uninsured that keeps being bandied around. The "real" uninsured number is something like 11 million...yea that is a lot, but it is nothing like the 44 million that you are being led to believe are out there. Screen for those 11 million and lets do something for them (hey the VA system is already up and running) but don't screw up a working system for those who already have it.

If one is to know the real truth about health insurance and health care in this country I would suggest reading something OTHER THAN the WHO report or watching a Michael Moore movie. Both have a MASSIVE agenda to "socialize" medicine. Ask those who participate in the social medicine system in England or Canada what they think. Some people and for some conditions it is probably good, others not so much.

It has been said many times (and I think a few times here) that if you want an MRI or CT scan and you live in Canada (and it is for something other than an emergency) you better head south across the boarder where you can get one THAT DAY vs. waiting for 3 months to find out you have a brain tumor. Sure that is not everyone, but if it is you it could kill you before you were even allowed to find out you had it... it has happened in the past and will get worse.

Also, socialized medicine is already in use in the US. It is called the VA system. Ask any of your retired vet friends how they feel about the care they get. Some and for some conditions it works fine, others NO. Now imagine making that system 300X bigger... in this case bigger WILL NOT make it better (just like most of the things I have found that get bigger, Pharma companies, car companies, Wall Street banks, etc.) just slower and more expensive and painful for all involved. I know from what I speak on this topic 2nd hand through many military friends.

I am just personally opposed to more government intervention and bail out in any form. I think personal responsibility needs to be taken for every decision in a persons life and if they choose poorly they should not expect me (or anyone else) to pay to bail them out... Yea, I am a libertarian, small government, and personal freedom, that is me.

Remember this are my views and I hope/believe they are backed up by real numbers and real non-biased studies and reporting and I post them here only to inform not inflame. If my views are not your views that is fine with me that is the beauty of this world, we can all have different views and still get along!

Now back to the music!

 

[Pcar928fan]

Jerry,

Like what you guys are setting up. Hope you have some good solid science backing up your site and that is helps many folks!

I agree that many doctors are in it to help people more than make money; I know a great many of them. I recently had a doctor friend of mine over to the house for a visit. I have not called on him as a sales rep for probably 5 years now and he asked me what other things I thought he might do for a living. I told him he loved medicine and he should keep doing that... He said, "You can only take a $30,000 per year pay cut so many years before there is nothing left to cut." He is not the only doctor I know experiencing this!

There will be a change and it will come sooner rather than later. I would love to see people dump their insurance (except for $10,000 deductible catastrophic) and pay cash when they get sick. I suspect most folks would spend less money per year than they do on insurance today and guess, what they would actually wait till they were SICK (not just a cough and a tickle in their throat looking for a day off from work and a doctors note) before they went in to see the doc.

Again it comes down to personal responsibility. DrJRapp what you are doing will help people take advantage of information and knowledge and have a better understanding of how to stay healthy! YEA!

 

[flykmair]

You are a rare breed, caring professional

You are so welcome. Your success will help disparage the general conception that everybody in the Medical industry is in it only for the money. There are those of us who do so to actually help people.

My wife, several other physicians and myself are in the process of creating an online publication (delivery system like Tone Audio) to educate medical personnel and the general public about certain health issues and their solutions. We will initially be doing research into childhood asthma and it's correlation to mold in the home. The company is a Non-profit educational organization, and we are currently in the process of getting our 501 C3 status approved by the IRS, thereafter donations will be considered tax deductible.

I truly believe that there are those in the medical field that are in it for the love of helping and making life better for the patient. We have a doctor for my mom, he is her kidney doctor since she is ESRD! He also cares for her MS and heart failure. He is one of a kind, true friend of the patient and the family of the patient. He gives all his patients and their Power of Attorney and caregivers his own real Cell phone number! He actually answers it himself 24/7 and his wife even answers it when he is, shall we say showering. I have called him a few times at 3am when my mom crashed, he answered and helped. He is the first doctor or hospital official to apologize to me for the mistreatment of my mother during her multiple stays. The hospital and its board never apologized for my mom being released without my consent and sent to a home. She was discharged without my aproval and a care home was called. She was put in a wheel chair and she stated she wasnt feeling right. 10 minutes later she coded in the elevator. I was never told. They stablize her and since she was released to the home 3 hours later and pick her up. They come get her and drive her 1 mile and she codes again. I was never told she had died twice, i was never told she was back in the ER being treated, I was on my way to visit her in her room when the nursing home that they released her to called me saying she coded twice and was in the er. I have photographic proof of mistreatment of her and witness of lack of care during night hours on multiple ocassions. The hospital just brushes me off, its all about the money to them and they dont pay their employees, instead they are redoing the exterior and a floor- wing. Our RN's are paid $10 an hour less that 40 miles from here. They are understaffed, and floor 4 is a death floor. My mom has been in the hospital 14 times since july 2008. I can tell you horror stories that would make you think twice about living a loved one overnight without a family member staying in thier room. When she is in their I dont go home at night, I sleep in her room or on the floor in the waiting room.

Its so nice to meet a doctor that cares, her pervious doctor threaten to lock her in a home. That seems the norm here, that want to put elderly people in a home. I hired a lawyer, we couldnt just leave the doctor and get another, we had to wait till she was rushed to the ER, I had to verbally and in writting state I was firing the doctor and would not accept anyone from thier firm or covering rounds for them. Total nightmare.>> Dr. Daniel Valach, saved my mom and is a wonderfull caring man and doctor.

People need to be warned, yes there are doctors that are in it for the money. they have a vested interest in some nursing homes. Example, July 28, 2008 mom has 2 foot blood clot from knee into stomach area and multiple clots in the lungs. i authorize the insertion of the stint-filter to stop the blood clots from traveling and killing her. The surgeon said he would be back in 2 days to remove the section in her leg since is was extremely large and dangrous over 2 feet long. Well one of the doctors from her office comes in at 7am and releases her to the nursing home he owns and without my consent. I show up at 11 to meet the surgeon and we walk to moms room and she is gone. We look at each other and wonder if she is dead. Then a nurse walks up and says shes in a home. I say i didnt authorize this and I am her POa and Guardian. many things happen, like laying in her own fecal matter for 12 hours staright till her skin looks like it has been burned by battery acid.

I know in my heart not everyplace is like this, but this is the a nightmare and has happened at multiple places. All in the name of profit margin. They cut staff and at the cost of your loved ones!!! I personally had to run and go get a man whose man had just coded when her left, lets just say it was hospital error that caused this mistake. We value the almighty Dollar more than people and thats just so sad. We are suppose to blindly trust these places to protect us and our loved ones and sometimes that is a foolish thing to do!

I just wanted to thank you again for the info, and wish you luck with your medical venture. It is so nice to see caring people and medical staff and I tip my hat to you. I hate to say it, and its only my opinion. I just happen to think wonderfully caring professionals like you and your associates and Dr Valach here are a rare breed and outnumbered by the ones that seek fame and fortune. One thing I have always hated is the doctor asking hows your sex life? As if my sexual activity or lack of sexual activity has anything to do with me having Carcinoid Cancer. It is like they are trying to tell me if I had more sex I wont have carcinoid cancer, wow nice cure sign me up. I am sorry for venting! All I personally know is something needs to be corrected with our medical system. To many doctors think they are God and I understand you have have that attitude to do what you do at times. But some shove it in your face saying its my way or no way.

DrJRapp Please let me know when your up and running and if you have a website up so I can check it out. Again thanks for taking the time to give me the info, I really appreciate the help. I wish you the best.

And to Pcrxxxfan it wasnt my wife its my mom. Also my dad is not doing well either. He had a major stroke in Oct 2008 while my mom was in the hospital, well I say him Friday night, he was pale and not looking well. Nothing worse then tacking care of your dying parent and then drive another 15 miles to check on your other ill parent whom lives with your step mom. All this and I am disabled, awaiting a third surgery, no income since October 2008. Waiting on social security to finish approval and waiting to go to court. Not to mention stress makes the carciniod tumors secrete more, ah fun days... Best wishes all and if their is anything I can do for anyone on this site, please ask! Also I want to apologize for any spelling errors in advance. I post here mainly when I am at the hospital and mom is sleeping. I use the hospital portals and the machines have keyboards with no letters on keys and in stardard keyboard order. I have no way to check spelling or grammar.

 

[Len44]

There will be a change and it will come sooner rather than later. I would love to see people dump their insurance (except for $10,000 deductible catastrophic) and pay cash when they get sick. I suspect most folks would spend less money per year than they do on insurance today and guess, what they would actually wait till they were SICK (not just a cough and a tickle in their throat looking for a day off from work and a doctors note) before they went in to see the doc.

I pretty much agree with your above comments. For the life of me, I do not understand how the greedy, heartless health insurance companies with the green eye-shade accountants (that generally lack medical training) were allowed to take over the medical segment of our society. Must have learned how to do it from the greedy, heartless bankers...

Again it comes down to personal responsibility.

'Course, if we ever stoop so low as to ever help those less fortunate than ourselves, why, by golly, we must be, um...OMG -- Socialists!?!

 

[jfm]

Joey,

Is that the Cook County ER that Gladwell writes about in Blink? And that uses an algorithm to determine which patients are experiencing a heart attack?

 

[Joey_V]

Joey,

Is that the Cook County ER that Gladwell writes about in Blink? And that uses an algorithm to determine which patients are experiencing a heart attack?

Have not come across Blink...

I know that it is the same Cook County ER that was on the Fugitive with Harrison Ford and the current ER show on NBC.

 

[gordonmenninger]

I was so upset I bought two sets of Summit X and a pair of spires. The Summit X's arrived today and I am going to be selling everything. I will keep my Aeon i's and maybe the Spires or one set of summit x's. I figure if I have to give ViroPharma all my money why not give it to Martin Logan...

sorry, but this does not make sense again... in a time when you need to hunker down and save money for medical bills, you go out and buy $36,000+ worth of Martin Logans because you are upset? It would have been alot cheaper to go out and buy a case of Jack Daniels or something...
Times are tough out there for everyone, but that just does not seem like a sound financial decision... just my $0.03

 

[kwr]

Len,

While there are many folks who do not have insurance these people do not lack for health care. They are at Joey's and other hospitals all across the country. They receive care regardless of their ability to pay for it. They in fact receive the best medical care that can be had anywhere in the world because they are here in the US.

I suspect most folks receive that care faster than they would in any country with socialized medicine too.

The local car companies have been putting a similar line about too - American therefore it is the best.

There are facets of American medicine that probably are the best in the world. There is plenty that is not.

The attitude that it is biggest and best in the States is limiting the USA's ability to be the biggest and best.

Kevin

 

[Len44]

Len,

While there are many folks who do not have insurance these people do not lack for health care. They are at Joey's and other hospitals all across the country. They receive care regardless of their ability to pay for it. They in fact receive the best medical care that can be had anywhere in the world because they are here in the US.

Well, it at least drives up the overall COST of health care for ALL OF US. It almost sounds as if you are suggesting that everything is pretty much hunky-dory with our nation's health care delivery system, when almost everyone realizes this is far, far from the reality.

I do not understand how ANYONE (well, except for the GREEDY insurance companies, and, um, Rush...and the Republicans whose new slogan to EVERYTHING seems to be, "Just Say No") could possibly have a problem with universal health care coverage, at least on some level.

Do you know that when they quote the stat about lack of health insurance you would be in that pool if you had one WEEK during the year where you changed jobs and didn't have health care for that period? Did you know that if you CHOOSE (because you are young, healthy and bullet proof) not to have health insurance you would count in that number of uninsured that keeps being bandied around. The "real" uninsured number is something like 11 million...yea that is a lot, but it is nothing like the 44 million that you are being led to believe are out there. Screen for those 11 million and lets do something for them (hey the VA system is already up and running) but don't screw up a working system for those who already have it.

Can you please cite some CREDIBLE (NOT Rush, Hannity, Coulter, Bohner, McConnell, Newt, etc -- some ACTUAL studies on this) that lay out the likely number of those lacking coverage? Remember, too, that this number has skyrocketed due to the large number of newly unemployed due to the Bush Depression.

If one is to know the real truth about health insurance and health care in this country I would suggest reading something OTHER THAN the WHO report or watching a Michael Moore movie. Both have a MASSIVE agenda to "socialize" medicine. Ask those who participate in the social medicine system in England or Canada what they think. Some people and for some conditions it is probably good, others not so much.

Holy Cow! Talk about having an Agenda...

I am just personally opposed to more government intervention and bail out in any form. I think personal responsibility needs to be taken for every decision in a persons life and if they choose poorly they should not expect me (or anyone else) to pay to bail them out... Yea, I am a libertarian, small government, and personal freedom, that is me.

Of course we should all be perfect and make the best of all possible decisions every single time. Unfortunately, this ain't reality. If only it were...

No Police, Fire Department, etc? Isn't that also Socialism (in your view)?

FWIW, I do not think I would care to reside in a community where this view was prevalent. I do NOT subscribe to the "every man for himself and the hell with everybody else" concept. Many need some help from time to time, be it a pat on the back, an encouraging word, or a $ or two.

I am OPPOSED to allowing -- in THIS country, for crying out loud -- homelessness, hunger, or denial of needed health care.

That is me...

 

[Rich]

America is the ONLY developed nation in the world that does not have some form of Universal Health Care. Think about that for a minute. Out of the thirty or so countries classified as "developed", we are alone in our failure to ensure basic medical care for all of our citizens. This, despite the fact that we spend more on health care than any other country in the world!

There is no question in my mind that too many families in our country go without needed medical treatment due to lack of insurance and skyrocketing costs. I have seen it first-hand over and over again. This is absolutely inexcusable in the richest nation in the world!

 

[Satch]

I know people who went to other countries to have operations done by excellent doctors at a fraction of the cost. (Doctor Shopping). As a matter of fact, when I was in Costa Rica I went to a doctor and had my blood screened and a basic check up. Around $100. w/script. I wanted to see if there were any pre-existing problems that would prevent me from getting health insurance here.

The question I have is; Are the health insurance products here that much different than AIG? It just seems to me like there are about seven lawyers between the doctor and the patient.

But what do I know, I'm just another one of the 40+million uninsured.

Satch

 

[Craig]

This is absolutely inexcusable in the richest nation in the world!

Are we really the richest nation in the world?

 

[Rich]

Are we really the richest nation in the world?

Ultimately, it depends on how you define it. Based on total GDP we are, by a wide margin. But if you want to base it on GDP per capita, we still rank in the top four. If you base it on GDP per capita based on Global Purchasing Power Parity, we rank second. No matter how you want to slice it, I think my point is still valid. It is inexcusable that a country as rich as ours doesn't provide some form of basic health coverage for all of its citizens, when every other developed country in the world manages to do so.

 

[Pcar928fan]

It is inexcusable that a country as rich as ours doesn't provide some form of basic health coverage for all of its citizens, when every other developed country in the world manages to do so.

And it is causing them to go broke and they still have the very rich playing outside the system and coming here for the best health care in the entire world! Again I say, if you LIKE the VA system then big government socialized medicine is for you! If you like care, then pay cash or get insurance one way or another.

Seriously guys, I have had some crazy health care issues this last year and I am in a wheelchair...the cost of COBRA that matches the insurance from my former employer is more expensive than the cost of all my my CT's, MRI's and new wheelchair COMBINED! That is the retail cost of the procedures (AND the ER visit!)...not the "negotiated" cost that my insurer got, NOR the cost that I would have been charged if I told them I was paying cash.

Eventually (and I hope it is coming soon) the insurance companies will find they have priced themselves out of the market and others with reasonably priced insurance will come in an fill the void.

Now if your ideas on Socialized medicine is that the government will somehow set up an insurance pool and otherwise keep the hell OUT of the current medical care giving machine that is the best in the world then fine. Don't get me wrong I am not interested in paying for your healthcare, but I certainly don't mind paying less for mine.

Based on my health care experience last year I say get a catastrophic policy with a $10,000 deductible and pay as you go... probably cheaper for most everyone in the long run and it gets us back to the cash pay system that was actually better for virtually everyone...including the doctors and nurses who actually make all the care happen anyway!

Sorry to rant on this guys...It is something I feel strongly about and with the recent passing of Liam Neeson's wife it just kind of brings it home. Not sure she could have been saved if the accident had happened in the US, but I think she would have had a better chance. I am guessing it was subdural bleeding and it might have been caught here in the states. My aunt in Ottawa worked in a hospital lab. She woke up one morning in '82 with the worst headache she ever had and called her doc. "Take and aspirin and see me later." There was no later...her son could not wake her a few hours after that and she is Hemiplegic and aphasic now...

So, forgive me if I prefer to PASS on the socialized medicine front! What kind of wheelchair would the federal gov say I needed? An iron maiden from 40 or 50 years ago? Probably, it would be cheaper than what I have now! I have a titanium chair that after a day of getting in and out of the car is heavy enough, I would not even be able to do my sales job with a gov. issued chair!

 

[RichTeer]

Sorry to rant on this guys...It is something I feel strongly about and with the recent passing of Liam Neeson's wife it just kind of brings it home. Not sure she could have been saved if the accident had happened in the US, but I think she would have had a better chance.

Given that she refused all medical aid at the time of the accident (at least, that is my understanding), I think her chances would be the same no matter where her accident happened.

FWIW, I think a two-tiered medical system would be best. One paid for out of our taxes so that everyone--even the poor, and trust me I'm no socialist!--can get the medical attention they need, and a private tier for those that can afford to pay for the best.

I agree with my namesake and others who have asserted that it is almost criminal that a modern developed country doesn't have some sort of social medical system.

 

[kwr]

And it is causing them to go broke and they still have the very rich playing outside the system and coming here for the best health care in the entire world! !

Cardiothoracic transplant - best figures in world St Vincents New South Wales Australia

Statistically safest place in world to have an anaesthetic New South Wales Australia

Lowest major morbidity following carotid endarterectomy in world - Australia.

These are areas I have personal specific expert experience with.

Vaccination rates, early childhood care, neonatal mortality, teenage pregnancy - need we go on. Not the USA

In terms of overservicing I think the USA is out on its own.

You need to lift your head and take a look around. No matter how many times you say it the USA does not have a stranglehold on quality in medicine. As far as looking after the poor ( it is a Christian country?) the story is one of tragic ineptitude.

Incidentally the idiot mistake that Natasha Richardson was subjected to will happen again and again. That story of a head injury and no one realising the potential problems ..... odds on if they had allowed the medics to see her they may have picked up subtle signs that would have mandated neuro obs, potentially a ct scan. The error your aunt's doctor made has absolutely nothing to do with a socialised medical system

Kevin

 

[kwr]

I have just reread my post .... let no one fall under the illusion that health in Australia exists in some sort of socialised utopia. There are problems with our dual public (government funded) and private systems but there is a genuine attempt to provide high quality health care for every citizen. There is plenty of world's best practice in the admixture and plenty that can be done better. Like every health system there are people of differing ability from the quintessential to the downright dangerous.

Some of the worst orthopaedic stuffups I have seen came from American skifields and hospitals with accompayning letters that revealed the manifest ignorance and lack of care that the unfortunate insured ,injured Australian had received. One of the most grateful patients I have dealt with was an elderly American who required carotid surgery while on his holiday due to a threatened stroke and in a thankyou letter months later was thrilled with the care he received in our public and private system. His stated the cost of his treatment was in the order of 1/5 of what he had to pay in the States for the same procedure on the opposite side some years earlier.

Something is very wrong for costs to be so different.

Kevin

 

[Rich]

And it is causing them to go broke and they still have the very rich playing outside the system and coming here for the best health care in the entire world!

The only thing this statement proves is your utter lack of knowledge and understanding of what is going on in other countries. You honestly believe every other developed nation in the world is "going broke" from providing some form of Universal Health Care and that all of their rich citizens are coming here for their health care? I think you have your head in the sand.

KWR's post dispels a little of that myth. How about some of the members from other countries such as Norway, Sweden, UK, France, Japan, etc. try to chime in and fill us in on their perspective? I think it would be eye-opening.

The fact is that "the best health care in the entire world", as you put it, is reserved solely for the rich in this country. The poor and lower middle class have very little access to even the basics.

Don't get me wrong I am not interested in paying for your healthcare, but I certainly don't mind paying less for mine.

Yet you don't seem to mind paying for my police protection, fire protection, k-12 schooling, and on and on. These are "socialized" government programs that benefit all of us and insure education and protection for every citizen. And though they are government run and aren't perfect, they do a pretty darn good job most of the time.

I am not talking about a completely government run health care system. I am talking about government insuring that all of its citizens have access to basic health care at a reasonable cost.

 

[twich54]

I am not talking about a completely government run health care system. I am talking about government insuring that all of its citizens have access to basic health care at a reasonable cost.

That just makes WAY too much sense......I don't think we have a Gov't capable of pulling it off ! ....but....I hope I'm wrong !

 

[Len44]

That just makes WAY too much sense......I don't think we have a Gov't capable of pulling it off ! ....but....I hope I'm wrong !

Understand an agree!

But, I think we do...at least (like you) I hope so.

If we can just get folks to actually THINK about it, and not be automatically against something because it is not their own idea, or afraid it might not fit with a preconceived, rigid political mindset.

Be nice to see from fresh thinking for a change...