Spire/Summit off axis?

I am curious as thoughts on how the Spires perform off axis? I know I should not buy a speaker for this criteria but I always read this as a potential negative for logans and wonder how significant it is. I currently have Klipsch RF-7s and they sound better in the sweet spot but still sound good from all over the house. I use my speakers for 2 channel serious listening as well as rocking the house.

I know both speakers well they are so different its not even funny.

have you ever heard the spires or summits if not you should! the off axis thing is blown way out of proportion by dealers that do not carry Logans to even compare these two speakers would be not be prudent.

And yes the spires or summits will rock your house although for house rocking sound they need much more power than your Klipsch.

Like you, I owned RF 7s before my Summits. Even though they are very dissimilar speakers they have similar "beaming" characteristics. You will not be dissapointed, in fact the stronger midrange of the ML is just the ticket for throught the house ambiance. However, as "Fish" said, they are hungrier than the RF7s.

Thanks, I have agonized over this decision for years. I originally was going to replace my RF-7s with Vantages but feared they would sound too small in my living room (vaulted ceilings, large room) The Spire looks perfect but want to see what trade offs if any i will encounter. My Klipsch actually sound really good with the addition of a Channel Island DAC and a tubed preamp (Juicy Music Peach) and a B&K amp. I am really just looking to try something new. My music tastes are folk, singer/songwriter, rock, classic rock. My fear has always been that i will miss the slam factor that i get when listening to the Stones or Led Zeppelin.

macallan said:

I am really just looking to try something new. My music tastes are folk, singer/songwriter, rock, classic rock. My fear has always been that i will miss the slam factor that i get when listening to the Stones or Led Zeppelin.

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I do not think so. you will gain so much warmth and detail that you are missing I think it will be as though you have not yet even heard your favorites.you really need to demo these speakers but more importantly get them into your home as in store demos usually do not portray a speaker properly at all.

those Klipsch musically really leave a lot to be desired in my opinion (also keep in mind their price point). yeah they play loud and slam the mid range and all of that but their is much more to the music you like that you are not hearing yet believe me there is a reason Logan charges what they do and if you want any better you need to spend a lot more.

I may be in the minority, but classic rock or new rock just does not seem to cut it for me with my set up. I've yet to find a Zep CD that does not sound like hash in my house. Perhaps it is my gear or room I'm not certain but fortunately, my tastes in music has moved to where the ML shines in my opinion. Jazz, classics and big band are where my tastes have gone but I'd like to crank some Tool or Alice in Chains now and then and frankly my system let's me down on some music.

Gordon

Gordon said:

I may be in the minority, but classic rock or new rock just does not seem to cut it for me with my set up. I've yet to find a Zep CD that does not sound like hash in my house. Perhaps it is my gear or room I'm not certain but fortunately, my tastes in music has moved to where the ML shines in my opinion. Jazz, classics and big band are where my tastes have gone but I'd like to crank some Tool or Alice in Chains now and then and frankly my system let's me down on some music.

Gordon

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its the music that is letting you down it's just that now you can hear all of the problems with the type of sound.for some reason rock music sound waves seem to really stack up in a room that is not all that great.

I agree with you fish. When I'm listening to some big band music, my meters are jumping all over the scale. Put in some Tool or Zep and the meters look like they are super-glued to a spot and don't move. Music for cars dose not cut it on the home rig!

I'm afraid it is a loosing battle with producers of music to have some dynamic range left in the final cut.

Gordon

Gordon, you need to come hear some rock on my system, it's a whole different world.

As Repman and Fountain will attest, when I play a track from a DVD-Audio disc of Porcupine tree, the rock don't stop :music:

Full 105+ dB SPL and perfect balance across the spectrum at ultra-low distortion.

ML's can rock, they just need the right room and equipment setup.

I've even been getting into some Prog-Metal lately, like the latest from 'Within temptation'.

But stuff like Jazz and classic piano are just near perfect.

I have a Jacques Loussier Jazz SACD that will blow your socks off with its realism.

I can't accept that it is the recordings fault, when i have heard several high end systems sound amazing with Zeppelin. I have heard 802ds, Von Schweikert and my lowly RF-7s sound great with lots of Zeppelin. I admit that this was not always the case with my Klipsch, tubes fixed that problem. Take a look at this article, Zep is highly regarded for their sound quality.

http://www.avrev.com/avrev.coms-top...rev.coms-top-100-rock-albums-of-all-time.html

Zep sounds great on my system and so do many other rock bands but many sound awful that where passable and a less detailed system.

we can talk about this all day why do you not just drive to a dealer that has a set of spires or summit X's and have a listen

I am with Fish and Jonfo on this. I only play rock, classic rock and jazz on my system and with the right setup, room treatements and properly dialed in MLs, you do not listen to the music with a ML 5.1 surround sound system you experience it.:music:

The music goes right thru you, it picks you up and slams you against the walls, if you like that sort of thing. I do!

With a dialed in system you will hear things on your favorites rock albums that you did not know was there before. You literally will rediscover your entire music collection. If you think I am kidding or exagerating, as Fish says, go and experience a great ML system and if you don't come away dumbfounded, don't buy ML.

JonFo said:

I've even been getting into some Prog-Metal lately, like the latest from 'Within temptation'.

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Jonathan, did you get the Blu-ray, or CD. If Blu-ray, how's the PQ on this?

I agree that listening is the best idea, i have tried and have only been able to listen to Vantages. In my experience they sounded great on simple singer/songwriter music but sounded compressed on more dynamic material. For example, Floyd's Wish you were here sounded awesome until the drums kicked in and then the sound broke up. I like the sound on the first part so much that I am still looking at Logans as a viable option. I hoped that the Cambridge integrated amp driving the Vantages were the culprit. My concern is when people who have gear that is far superior to mine (ML Spire,McIntosh C1000 Tube Pre Amp, 2 McIntosh MC501 Amps, McIntosh MCD/MDA Transport/DAC)comment that Logans are not good for Zep, Tool or Alice in Chains. All of those sound great with my current set up and I know that they are not all poor recordings. I have heard poor recordings on my system and Zeppelin does not apply.

I hear a lot less of these problems with rock music when I switch from my cd player to my TT. for some reason cd's sound a lot better to me with a pair of good cone speakers as the TT sounds better with my spires.see if they have a TT on hand when you audition your speakers it sometimes helps to try different formats when spending that much money

good point, i have never listened to them with Vinyl.

When I moved from Vistas to Summits I was suprised and pleased how much more Dynamic the sound was without giving up any detail. When I changed from Adcom Amplifers to Krell I got aother boost in dynamics. I can say without a douby that the Summits with Krell amplifers can rock the house while still providing the lovely detailed ml sound. I expect the Spires would also do well. However, drive them with an amplifer that can handle the wide range of impedances.

For classic rock I enjoy Vinal through a tube preamp into the Krells & Summits
Good luck & enjoy

Larry

my re-quests can definitely rock... and have great off axis response to boot.

I will say that it took either biamp with the sa250 or the two brystons to really "rock" without a second sa250 they just did not really have the dynamics. Ironically, after getting a second sa250, I like the CJ better than the brystons. Which is somewhat unfair since I have internally upgraded the sa250, which was already a great amp.

biamp 2x stereo conrad johnson sa250 (120w8ohm 250w4ohm)
Bryston 7bST (800w in series mode, 500w paralel)


I would have not described the requests as dynamic until the biamp setup, so I would definitely say they need some power (but also finesse) behind them.

You know if something sounds awesome with something that you describe as simple and then breaks up with something complex, it could be that you have an isolation problem.

You should try to isolate your rack, all of your components as well as your amp and pre-amp. Try Herbies Audio Lab for starters.

ML's will expose any upstream distortion and it will come accross as sound blending or in your words breaking up on complex music. With proper isolation you will be able to hear every single instrument and every single note throughout complex passages.With isolation MLs sound unbelievable.:rocker:

RUR said:

Jonathan, did you get the Blu-ray, or CD. If Blu-ray, how's the PQ on this?

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Got the CD/DVD combo for $22, and the image quality, for a DVD, is pretty good, higher than most concert DVD's, as the show was filmed in HD.

I think I'll be ordering the BluRay from Amazon.fr in a month or two if they don't a announce a US BluRay release.