ML placement and windows

Greetings!

I am about to buy a house and I, naturally, am also planning my ML Source's placement. I have a very good house in sight but there is not a descent listening room, so I would have to place the speakers in living room (22 m2 or 238 ft2).

As you see from attached pictures, kithenette/dining room (18,5 m2 or 200 ft2) is in the same open space with living room.

I would appreciate your opinions, how would you place the speakers in the room? Would the windows behind the speakers cause some issues, as I remember having heard that from somewhere?

Thanks! :bowdown:

Regards,
Mikko

Speakers are usually best set up to fire the longer way down a room. If that's not practical, and you have to sit in front of a reflecting wall, then you'll need some sort of absorption (or possibly diffusion) on the wall behind you. The photo below may seem a little extreme, but it gives excellent sound by avoiding those damaging reflections.

--Ethan

Thanks for your reply, Ethan!

Being a newbie, may I ask what is the difference between absorber and diffuser?

-Mikko

Ethan, I'm surprised that you did not suggest absorption immediately behind the speakers as there are windows there.

mikvilja said:

may I ask what is the difference between absorber and diffuser?

Click to expand...

All room acoustic problems are caused by reflections. Absorbers are placed on surfaces to stop sound from reflecting at all. Diffusors do reflect, but they scatter the sound in many directions. This keeps some liveness in the room while avoiding the "boing" sound you get from reflections between parallel walls. Even when diffusion is used, absorption is still needed for low frequencies which cannot be easily diffused. Absorption alone can be used successfully in most rooms.

Entire books have been written on this, but the above is the basic difference.

--Ethan

Bernard said:

I'm surprised that you did not suggest absorption immediately behind the speakers as there are windows there.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see any speakers at all in those photos.

--Ethan

mikvilja said:

Would the windows behind the speakers cause some issues, as I remember having heard that from somewhere?

Click to expand...

Ethan Winer said:

Maybe I'm blind, but I didn't see any speakers at all in those photos.

--Ethan

Click to expand...

Rest assured, you are not blind. I was referring to the text, per the quote.

Thanks for the replys!
My apologies for not being clear enough. I used Paint to modify the layout pic a little bit. I put some measures of the room there as well. I circled the open space (kithen and living room) and separated them with red line. The bottom part is the living room part where I need to place the speakers.

As you see, the room is quite small. The fact that I can't furnish it up for being only listening room but there needs to be couch and table as well somewhere adds to the challenge. I attached the photos in my first post to help you understand how the room looks.

The stuff that are in the picture are not ours, so we are still planning on how to furnish the room.

So how would you solve this dilemma? Where would you place the speakers so that the room would still look like a living room?

Thanks,
Mikko

PS. If it would be only me, the living room would look like listening room... :music:

mikvilja,

Hi and welcome to the M.L.O.C.

Your new house looks beautiful. My place is not as large as yours but I have to deal with having my stereo system in a living room that is not ideal for a dedicated Hi Fi listening room.

That said, I suggest you set up your Source's by the windows in that little alcove to the right. Nice little 2 channel music area. Just keep the speakers out of the direct sun. I'd add a servo sub to the mix and that would fill that whole area with great sounding music.

Now if you want to get serious about high end audio listening or H.T., That's where the more experienced members here could help you out.

As Roberto always say's... Happy Listening!

Satch

Thank you, Satch!

I have been a silent reader of the forum for a year and thought that I'd "officially" introduce myself in new member forum as soon as I get my permanent place and can set up my system.

If I would put the speakers by the window, I have two issues on my mind;
1. Does it cause problems with sound to have window behind the speakers? Altough in this setup there would not be a wall behind the listening place.
2. How about the alcove shape in the wall (best seen from layout pic), do you think it would disturb the sound stage, as it is not straight wall?

Cheers,
Mikko

mikvilja,

I think that little alcove by the windows can work pretty good for you. Start by placing the speakers about one meter out, around two-three meters apart and slightly toed in. If you still have the curtains, experiment by listening with the curtains open then closed. Where you sit is very important if you are trying to create a "soundstage" effect with your system. Overall, I'm guessing the system should sound great throughout the living room. A servo sub will help your system fill the room.

After you have your all of your furniture in place, you can really start to fine tune your stereo. That's where the real fun (and madness) begins!

Acoustic treatments have made a huge improvement in my system and Ethan Winer helped me figure out how to treat my asymmetrical room. Check out RealTraps.com for a wealth of info about sound waves and effective solutions.

I hope this helps and I also hope you get as much pleasure from your system as I have with mine.

Satch

Thank you, Satch!

-Mikko

Moi Mikko!

One possible problem with placing them in front of the windows (besides the possible lack of WAF) is that glass has an absorption factor of nearly zero so you will get reflections.
You might get saved because of the alcove indention though so you'll have to test it and see what happens.
I too have my setup in a living room environment and you just have to make do with the reality at hand and try to make the best of it, asking for advise here is an excellent way to go forward because there is truly a wealth of knowlegde available.
One day I dream about having a dedicated room without any windows and really go balls deep with room treatment etc like JonFo

Best of luck with your setup and keep us posted!

I have windows behind my speakers too, and ideally would like to have a Tube Trap behind each one, but they are quite expensive, so I am considering making some per John Risch's designs. There are a few companies that sell panels, but I do not want a 2' wide panel behind a 1' wide speaker, and besides, those panels require some sort of support (feet), whereas Tube Traps are free-standing.

Thanks again for your comments!
Looks like we can move in on week 28 so there is still some time to do planning. I will try that alcove thing to see how much problems the window glass is causing and as a second option the wall on the left side.

I will keep you posted!