Why tube rectify just the power supply?

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David Matz

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I was wondering if anyone has any idea why a designer would tube rectify a power supply. I was looking at a Lamm preamp, and the design is SS. However, the designer chose to tube rectify only the power supply. Why? Why not just have the entire preamp be tubed?

Thanks!
 
My guess on this would be...

A talented designer can make solid state audio stages sound good. But a tube rectifier has some different characteristics than SS diodes.

For one, the tube just simply sounds good when used right. Solid state diodes have the problem of the sharp turn on and the fact that it tends to radiate noise up so high in frequency. So high, that its into the RF frequencies. The patches, to try to bypass that noise, may be a problem sonically let alone the sonic situations in the power supply itself.

OldMonolith
 
Except the tube rectifiers have their own share of issues. It's always a trade off.

Im not totally familiar with Lamm, were the tubes rectifiers or voltage regulators...

Either way, the tube rectifier acts as a somewhat natural "slow start" circuit because the rectifier tube has to warm up before it lets all of the high voltage rush into the rest of the circuit, which is a good thing.

However the current crop of rectifiers can be pretty short lived and they get noisy relatively quickly at times.

Just a different way of doing things.
 
My understanding (and limited experience) is that a tube rectifier adds both "voltage sag" and "soft clipping" to the output, as well as more even-order harmonic distortion (vs. SS odd-order distortion), all of which result in a warmer and often-times preferred sound. One can certainly argue the result is less accurate than SS, but I don't want to fan the flames of that debate!

My personal experience derives from having purchased the original Modwright SWL 9.0SE, which had a SS power supply. I thought it sounded great, but on some material (especially older CD's) it was still a bit strident (aka digital glare). After about 6 months, Dan started offering upgrades to a tube rectified power supply. After reading the glowing reviews (pardon the pun), I decided to go that route. Nothing else in the amp was altered, except for going from a SS to the tube-rectified power supply. The end-result (to my ears) is quite remarkable... yielding a slightly "warmer" sound, which is a lot more "musical" and "natural" sounding, even with poorly engineered early CD's. Even more impressive is how the overall tonality of the sound can be tweaked even further, depending upon which vintage 5AR4 rectifier tube I use. I have "rolled' 3 different rectifier tubes thus far, ranging from $10-$70 ea, each with it's own unique "sonic signature". Right now I'm awaiting a demo (thanks to member RUR) of the rare Philips metal-base GZ34, reportedly the Crème de la Crème of rectifier tubes. It'll be interesting to hear what this $250+ tube really sounds like!

I'm sure that others with far more tube knowledge will chime in on this topic.
 
Thanks to all who have replied.

This is from the Lamm website, but I'm not sure what it means:

The L2 has a separate power supply that utilizes a choke contained filter, vacuum tube rectifier and voltage regulator.
Special care was taken in designing a high voltage (+350V) high speed vacuum tube voltage regulator. Using this voltage regulator, in conjunction with other technical aspects, enables the reproduction of tiniest nuances and three-dimensional subtleties in the music palette (provided that such details had not been lost in a recording process). A somewhat unusual combination of high voltage vacuum tube power supply and superlinear high voltage MOS-FETs allows to attain an enormously large output swing while retaining practically constant harmonic contents of the signal with an absolute dominance of the second harmonic.

The result of the design is that Lamm is supposed to have a very organic, natural sound - no audiophile terms, but just excellent musicality. The only other brand that does this sort of thing that I am aware of is the more recent Conrad Johnson stuff. One reviewer claims that it has a "tube ease without being euphonic."
 
I had the fun this past weekend of a very interesting get together with some guys and some cool equipment.

A friend has a preamp, that began life as an Audio Note D to A. After adding and reconfiguring, it had become a line stage in addition and eventually lost the D to A completely. So it became a line stage based on an Ampex circuit.

Now the fun part. It now has a solid state rectifier PS AND a tube rectifier PS both. At the flip of a switch, after a delay, you can pretty immediately hear the difference. Also, it includes a built in Variac to allow matching or purposely completely different B+ voltages. Both supplies are well done, choke input, not shorted technically in anyway to purposely make one better than the other.

The conclusion is, at matched voltages, that the tube supply is much nicer than the SS. About a dozen people heard it and I didn't hear any differing opinion. Not a conclusion in all cases maybe, but interesting to hear with your own ears!

Also interesting, is the varying of B+ voltage. As you first reduce from the nominal B+, it gains a bit of a sharper, crisper edge. Not totally bad, particularly on some music that can sound ok with drive and aggressiveness. Go more, and to me it just falls apart into harshness. We're talking 250 normally, first reduced to maybe 225 and gets bad below 200.

Measurements (on the audio output) on this reduced voltage showed that it was 3rd harmonic that came up, producing the observed hardness. So it was an opportunity to really hear what a 3rd harmonic dominated distortion really sounds like. Pretty cool for an audio geek like me!!

Also, with relation to the above comment about 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion, it's a big difference in the effect between the two! THD is almost a completely useless number! Its the higher harmonics, the odds that are so unnatural to the ear. The second is not too disturbing, but the third is much more so.

A story I've heard being talked about, but I've not found reference to it yet, is that the 3rd harmonic is out of phase with the fundamental, and blunts the leading edge of the audio. This seems to make sense. A friends DIY tube amp, measures about 50db down on the 2nd and below 90db on the 3rd, and its the nicest sounding amp I've ever heard! The clarity on highs is just astonishing.

Sleepysurf, with regards to your comments about voltage sag. That's a desirable characteristic on a guitar amp, but no well designed audio amp, should have an issue with that. The soft clipping is something often mentioned for tube amps with regard to the output stage when over driven. It isn't so much to do with the PS part of things. I've also had the chance to experience the difference in PS rectifier tubes. In an original Dynaco ST70, going through a hand full of different tubes you could hear a difference. That was into big Voice of the Theatre Altec speakers that are efficient enough to not use much power and over run the amps notoriously under filtered power supply. Pretty cool, hearing the change between tubes. The best we heard, was the original Mullard 5AR4 in that situation.

OldMonolith
 
The second harmonic is one octave above the fundamental. If you have a lot of second harmonic distortion in the sound, it will produce a richer fuller sound that some find pleasant. Odd order harmonics will not be exact octaves above the fundamental. Therefore, they will sound dissonant and unpleasant. Some purists don't like any change to the fundamental notes.

I agree with sleepysurf. I started out with a ModWright modded 999ES and went from an SS to tube rectified PS. No question about the sonic benefits. Same thing with his SWL/SWLP pre amps.
 
I agree with sleepysurf. I started out with a ModWright modded 999ES and went from an SS to tube rectified PS. No question about the sonic benefits. Same thing with his SWL/SWLP pre amps.
I have had a tube rectified PS with my Counterpoint PRE and now with the Modwright stuff. Like Tonepub stated, there are always plus and minuses with each technology and it is up to us to determine if we can live with it or not. Each technology when done right can sound great or when done wrong like a POS.

In my setup, my rectifier testing was swapping out the stock Ruby with an Amperex, which I thought IMO was a significant downgrade. I have thought about getting some other 5AR4's to try out, but if the Amperex is an indication of the direction the sound will take......... :confused:

The Ruby has calmed down significantly along with the 5687's I use. I have some dampeners coming for the Ruby so will see what happens with those.
 
I'd like to add that I prefer tube rectification in a preamp, and solid state rectification in the power amp. I've found an excellent compromise though; I fitted my McIntosh preamp with HEXFRED diodes when the original selenium diodes failed. HEXFREDs are low impedance, soft recovery types with very high switching rates; t/t well down in the nano second range, vs milliseconds for conventional diodes. I feel that they provide about 95% of the magic that a tube rectifier provides, with better bass response and efficiency associated with solid state devices. The danger is, particularly with retrofitting vintage gear as I've done, is that inrush current and much higher B+ voltage can be a problem. I had to place a hefty power resistor downstream of the diodes to limit current a little and bring the voltage down a bit. New-build designs can be dealt with differently; if using new transformers, they'll have 120 or 125v primaries, so that's less of an issue. Older trannies are set up for 117v.
My MX110 was night and day in terms of sound difference! It was like cotton was pulled out of my ears. Another excellent diode is the Philips ECG 5824. No matter what, get rid of those noisy, nasty 1N4007 types out of your gear! That might render the tube vs SS power supply argument moot for many. I still prefer tube p/s for preamps, as I've mentioned.
 
Why tubes? :devil:

In speaking to Vladimir Lamm, he did not use tubes in the preamp because he said he used a Mosfet design with very expensive parts which he believes bests tubes. For the power supply he used tubes because it helps him regulate large voltage swings and get better sonic results (simplistic!).
 
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