Why no xlr in/out on descent i?

[discocarp]

So we have the L/R in/out rca jacks on the descent i (and other ml subs of course). Why no XLR?

I could really use this if I were to add a descent i to my summit setup (later! running out of cash now hehe). Using these jacks the descent i needs to sit between the preamp and amp. Since the sub is not likely to be close to this equipment, doesn't it seem XLR would be a good choice? Instead I'll need to run 10 feet or something of RCA from the preamp to the sub and then 10 more feet back to the amp. I'd only need one length if I had monoblocks (I don't), but still. I was probably going to go all balanced but I guess I can't if I plan to ever add a sub. Seems pointless to go balanced from the source to the preamp for 3 feet then unbalanced for the next 20 feet.

 

[nsgarch]

It sounds like a good idea, however . . . . .

IMO, it's more important to avoid the extra connections/interfaces between the preamp and amp, unless of course you want to engage the high-pass function on the sub, to take the bass out of the signal on its way to your main speakers (and why on earth would you want to do that to a Summit?)

But for the cleanest/quietest signal, I'd want a direct connection between the preamp > amp, with a separate pair of IC's from the preamp > sub.

 

[discocarp]

(and why on earth would you want to do that to a Summit?)

Just to try it. It *IS* the recommended setup in the descent i manual for 2 channel! From everything I've read here, I won't really know which way sounds better without trying it both ways.

I'm not going to have a descent for this system anytime soon, so this is really a for curiosity's sake discussion, but still...

 

[Kenscollick]

I doubt very much that you would need a sub woofer if you are listening to music. I have heard the summit and it is definately no slouch in the lower registers.

 

[twich54]

But for the cleanest/quietest signal, I'd want a direct connection between the preamp > amp, with a separate pair of IC's from the preamp > sub.

Neil, I agree !! That's exactly how I have connected mine.

 

[twich54]

I doubt very much that you would need a sub woofer if you are listening to music. I have heard the summit and it is definately no slouch in the lower registers.

While you may feel there is 'no' need for a sub, I can tell you one that is properly integrated will do wonders !! and I'm talking two channel music !!

 

[Audioseduction]

Neil, I agree !! That's exactly how I have connected mine.

That's also the way I have mine setup.

 

[amey01]

A properly integrated sub will do wonders for the entire frequency spectrum, not just the bass. FWIW, mine is connected directly to the preamp with a Behringer DSP1124P for management.

 

[Pcar928fan]

A properly integrated sub will do wonders for the entire frequency spectrum, not just the bass. FWIW, mine is connected directly to the preamp with a Behringer DSP1124P for management.

Only if your main speakers can acutually and accurately get all the way down to 20Hz or preferrably 18Hz would you be able to NOT notice the benefits of a "sub". YMMV.

 

[Dominick22]

I have to admit that somehow the highs transformed in my system when I added my Descent. I agree that a sub addition will make an improvement over the entire frequency band.

Dominick

 

[Audioseduction]

I have to admit that somehow the highs transformed in my system when I added my Descent. I agree that a sub addition will make an improvement over the entire frequency band.

Dominick

That is a fact! When I was experimenting, I position my sub in the center between my MLs and lost all low end bass, the sound stage went flat and mids were dull. I reposition the sub back to the left where it was and everything came back to normal, bass response, sound staging, center stage came alive and focus again. I tell YOU! What an impact a sub can make! I feel that good bass provides proper contrast to the mids and highs so they will sound stellar.

 

[nsgarch]

That is a fact! When I was experimenting, I position my sub in the center between my MLs and lost all low end bass, the sound stage went flat and mids were dull. I reposition the sub back to the left where it was and everything came back to normal, bass response, sound staging, center stage came alive and focus again. I tell YOU! What an impact a sub can make! I feel that good bass provides proper contrast to the mids and highs so they will sound stellar.

George, put the sub back in the center, and also even with the speakers front to back. Then switch the phase adjust to 90 degrees. Now what do you hear?

 

[benleeys]

That is a fact! When I was experimenting, I position my sub in the center between my MLs and lost all low end bass, the sound stage went flat and mids were dull. I reposition the sub back to the left where it was and everything came back to normal, bass response, sound staging, center stage came alive and focus again. I tell YOU! What an impact a sub can make! I feel that good bass provides proper contrast to the mids and highs so they will sound stellar.

Most decidedly a classic case of sub being out-of-phase when you locate it in the center between the main speakers in this instance. Has the effect of cancelling the bass notes. You should switch the phase till the bass comes back.

 

[Audioseduction]

How can by moving the sub to the right 4' so it positioned center of the speakers put it out of phase? I did not move it forward or backwards.

 

[Audioseduction]

I read the worse place to place the sub is the middle of the room. I have to agree from experiance. Here is a link on how to place it.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/subwoofer-placement-guidelines

http://www.sonicdesign.se/subplace.html

 

[nsgarch]

How can by moving the sub to the right 4' so it positioned center of the speakers put it out of phase? I did not move it forward or backwards.

George, the front and back of the stat panel are 180 degrees out of phase. Using (especially) an omnidirectional sub like a Depth or Decent, placed between and even with the panels, you set the phase to 90 degrees (halfway between 0 and 180) and you get reinforcement of the panels' bass front and back instead of semi-cancellation of the sub with the panels, both front and back. Just try it, you'll see (I mean 'hear' ) My Depth owner's manual mentions this, I can't remember where.

I don't know if the result will be exactly the same with the Paradigm sub (which is front firing, right?) you may have to pull it back a foot or two from being even with the panels, but the phasing recommendation still applies.

Neil

 

[Audioseduction]

George, the front and back of the stat panel are 180 degrees out of phase. Using (especially) an omnidirectional sub like a Depth or Decent, placed between and even with the panels, you set the phase to 90 degrees (halfway between 0 and 180) and you get reinforcement of the panels' bass front and back instead of semi-cancellation of the sub with the panels, both front and back. Just try it, you'll see (I mean 'hear' ) My Depth owner's manual mentions this, I can't remember where.

I don't know if the result will be exactly the same with the Paradigm sub (which is front firing, right?) you may have to pull it back a foot or two from being even with the panels, but the phasing recommendation still applies.

Neil

Ok, thats about where I have mine set and it's in phase. Still the center is a bad location, you lose lots of sound pressure due to no side walls. Closer to the corner is much better.

 

[nsgarch]

It may be so . . .

Ok, thats about where I have mine set and it's in phase. Still the center is a bad location, you lose lots of sound pressure due to no side walls. Closer to the corner is much better.

. . . for a front firing sub. I have only used the two Kinergetics towers (see my old system pics) before getting the single Depth. Of course something I didn't consider was the fact that your two main speakers also include conventional woofers, and they are definitely in phase with the front of the panels, so maybe that also has something to do with it.

N

 

[DTB300]

Ok, thats about where I have mine set and it's in phase. Still the center is a bad location, you lose lots of sound pressure due to no side walls. Closer to the corner is much better.

Sub placement is entirely dependant on the room it is placed in.

Yes, I would agree with you that nearer a wall will help enforce the low end, but again this could turn out to be very bad in some rooms and excite too many room modes.

One of the best ways to find a good spot by ear is to place your sub where you sit, then crawl around the room to find the best low end - place your sub there. But with all the new low end EQ measurement programs and devices, you can now put the microphone where you sit and move your sub around.

For those that have limited placements, like myself, then EQing your sub will help assist in getting the best sound possible for your room and placement.

But the ultimate for getting the best from your sub is treatment of your room.

George, the front and back of the stat panel are 180 degrees out of phase. Using (especially) an omnidirectional sub like a Depth or Decent, placed between and even with the panels, you set the phase to 90 degrees (halfway between 0 and 180) and you get reinforcement of the panels' bass front and back instead of semi-cancellation of the sub with the panels, both front and back.

Complete agreement here as this setting is the best, not only with the sound I get from my setup - which can be confirmed from the attendees at the MD/DC/VA get-together, but also with my SMS-1 which shows that a 90 degree phase setting is the best. My sub sits right in the middle of my CLSIIz's and I use the Servo 15 v2 - a Front firing sub.

Could be totally different for a hybrid like the Vantage. That is where measurements properly tells you what is right instead of guessing. Get it set correctly, then adjust for your tastes from there.

Dan

 

[twich54]

Sub placement is entirely dependant on the room it is placed in.

Could be totally different for a hybrid like the Vantage. That is where measurements properly tells you what is right instead of guessing. Get it set correctly, then adjust for your tastes from there.

Dan

Exactly !!!!