Where to begin?

[Gordon]

I was reading over the thread on analog started by Jeff the past couple days and it got me to wondering. I grew up with LPs (51 years old) but like a lot of people, went to CDs and the records went away.

So, I've done some digging and I'm completely now in the dark about how to begin a rentry into vinyl. I'd like to start with a good table but not something so expensive that if I don't care for it I won't feel like it was a waste. Yet I don't want something so cheap that the true capabilities of vinyl are hidden. I certainly do not know the difference between cartridges, tonearms and stylus. What table would meet these requirements?

Gordon

 

[RichTeer]

What sort of budget do you have in mind? I wouldn't even consider spending less than ~$400 for a turntable/arm/cartridge combo (and that assumes your preamp is phono-capable), and would suggest something more in the $1K to $2K range, with a further few hundred set aside for a dedicated phonostage.

 

[Gordon]

RichTeer,

Let's use $750 for everything as a starting point. My pre is phono capable with a Moving Magnet cartridge and has been rated fairly well by people who use it for vinyl.

I've noticed people buy tables that are upgradeable as the use of the table becomes, for lack of a better word, easier to use so I'd like to go that route. I'm not a big tweaker or roll pieces in and out all the time.

Gordon

 

[SundayNiagara]

RichTeer,

Let's use $750 for everything as a starting point. My pre is phono capable with a Moving Magnet cartridge and has been rated fairly well by people who use it for vinyl.

I've noticed people buy tables that are upgradeable as the use of the table becomes, for lack of a better word, easier to use so I'd like to go that route. I'm not a big tweaker or roll pieces in and out all the time.

Gordon

You should be able to find a Project combo in that price range. Properly set up, it should put a hurting on your cd player.

 

[TrumpetDoug]

Tables

You should be able to find a Project combo in that price range. Properly set up, it should put a hurting on your cd player.

Project would be great. Music Hall is also probably in the realm.

Doug - out

 

[Satch]

Gordon,

I was in the same position as you about six months ago. I posted a WTB here for a ready to rock TT. I didn't know diddley (still don't for the most part ) about what was good and what was hype. I lucked out and fellow member jtwrace turned me on to a TT that he put together. Now I'm a huge analog fan... Once again. (I'm also 51.)

Satch

 

[SundayNiagara]

Project would be great. Music Hall is also probably in the realm.

Doug - out

Both come from the same source!

 

[RichTeer]

RichTeer,

Let's use $750 for everything as a starting point. My pre is phono capable with a Moving Magnet cartridge and has been rated fairly well by people who use it for vinyl.

I've noticed people buy tables that are upgradeable as the use of the table becomes, for lack of a better word, easier to use so I'd like to go that route. I'm not a big tweaker or roll pieces in and out all the time.

Gordon

OK, modulo the upgradability stuff the Pro-Ject Debut III is the obvious entry-level candidate. I think it's about $400, including a cartridge (which could probably be improved). That would leave you with a few $$$ left over to buy an MC-capable phonostage if you decided to persue vinyl further.

Upgradability is a good idea, but I think the entry price is higher. You're probably looking at one of the cheaper Clearaudios or VPIs, for example.

 

[Gordon]

OK, I see that the recommendation is for a MC which I assume means Moving Coil and a phono stage. Is it possible to use a MC cart on my preamp which states in the manual MM (Moving Magnet?)

Maybe someone can point me to a good primer on terms and use regarding a TT to cut down on the amount of perhaps repeated questions. I tried search here but maybe my word criteria is wrong.

Ignorance is bliss and frustrating at the same time!!

Gordon

 

[twich54]

OK, I see that the recommendation is for a MC which I assume means Moving Coil and a phono stage. Is it possible to use a MC cart on my preamp which states in the manual MM (Moving Magnet?)

Gordon

Gordon, Good morning, interested in returning to Vinyl,,,,very good !

First off, to answer your question above, the answer would be yes, PROVIDED your cartridge is a HO MC (high output, 2.5 mv or more)

Keep this in mind, even with a high output MC the gain of your phon-pre section could possibly be too low.

Now for my opinion on tt budget, etc........ If one has a top flite digital front end and is looking to put a vinyl rig together that will provide equal or greater saisfaction it won't be done for $750 (unless you run into an incredible used offering....not likely !)

Gordon, I think you would be better served by saving extra $$$ to the point where you can safely spend $1500 or more. The rigs that have been mentioned in the previous posts while they would provide a nice intro into vinyl for a "younger" newbie I don't think would give much satisafaction to someone "our" age looking to challenge or at least equal your digital front end.

 

[twich54]

Sorry Gordon...dummy me, I didn't give you what you were askin originally...recomendations....

The following are what, IMO, would provide a good foundation from which you can decide as to where your analog journey will go.

1) Pro-Ject "Perseptive" w/ Sumiko 'Blackbird' cartridge installed -$1799

2) Music Hall 7.1 w/Goldring GL-2400 cart installed - $1495

3) Rega P-5, $1395 table only, cartridge options would still keep it under 2k

4) Technics SL 1200 - $5-600 table only. I put ths one in here for the fact that there are alot of Technics Direct drive fans out there. It is considered a real bargin with tons of tweaks, etc. More info on this and alot of other good analog discussion can be found here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?board=32.0

5) As you know I like my VPI, and while it may stretch your budget I feel the Scout or Scoutmaster would be worthy choices as well.


Also Gordon, since we are somewhat close feel free to give me a shout if you are interested in coming up my way to listen to my set-up.

 

[DrJRapp]

I agree with Dave. With Mac gear and Spires you will not be satisfied with entry level gear. I chose to "go low" when I first tried re-entry into the world of vynil and found myself extremely dissatisfied and wound up upgrading within a week to the $2K level. Since then I have upgraded my entre 2 channel rig considrably and now find what I purchased back then as a TT, cartridge, preamp combo to be a tad shy on performance.

One hint. I've found the Grado Wood MM cartridges to be an excellent matchup with ML stats. (I use a Wood Sonata MSRP $500) Because of the Spires exceptional midrange articulation, one needs a cartridge that is full warm and also extrmely articulate in the midrange. Grados midrange shines through better than some much more costly mc cartridges. In a lab their extreme high end (18Khz and above) is somewhat lacking by comparison to MCs that have much higher costs, however very few discs have much information beyond 12-15Khz anyway.

 

[SundayNiagara]

OK, I see that the recommendation is for a MC which I assume means Moving Coil and a phono stage. Is it possible to use a MC cart on my preamp which states in the manual MM (Moving Magnet?)

Maybe someone can point me to a good primer on terms and use regarding a TT to cut down on the amount of perhaps repeated questions. I tried search here but maybe my word criteria is wrong.

Ignorance is bliss and frustrating at the same time!!

Gordon

Try the 1.5mv Grado's. Yes, they are still available!

 

[MiTT]

Here's a third recommendation for the high output magnetic Grado's. I'm running the Statement, but even the lower priced versions offer supurb musicality.

Also similar to what Dave was saying, I'd be looking at the ability to upgrade as time goes on. I'm a big VPI proponent for this reason. You could start off with a Scout today and evolve over many years into a Super Scout Master in incremental steps or stop anywhere along the line as your tastes and finances permitted.

 

[Bernard]

You could start off with a Scout today and evolve over many years into a Super Scout Master in incremental steps or stop anywhere along the line as your tatstes and finances permitted.

Agreed. You may want to buy a used unit off Audiogon for starters. I do have one concern, though, with buying used turntables, and that is that you may end up with a damaged bearing; but, VPI stocks parts for all of their stuff, and in any case, some of the upgrades involve bearing replacements.

I suggest that for starters you buy the best TT you can afford, and compromise on the cartridge (buy something cheap). Then when funds permit, upgrade the cartridge, then the TT.

One thing that is a must buy is a Shure stylus force gauge. It's cheap and basic, but works very well.

 

[twich54]

Agreed. You may want to buy a used unit off Audiogon for starters. I do have one concern, though, with buying used turntables, and that is that you may end up with a damaged bearing; but, VPI stocks parts for all of their stuff, and in any case, some of the upgrades involve bearing replacements.

I suggest that for starters you buy the best TT you can afford, and compromise on the cartridge (buy something cheap). Then when funds permit, upgrade the cartridge, then the TT.

One thing that is a must buy is a Shure stylus force gauge. It's cheap and basic, but works very well.

Gordon, more good advice per Bernard and Tim ! but then I too am a VPI guy !

 

[Gordon]

Thanks for all the great advice guys. I probably should up my budget. Come to think of it, I'd more than likely be dissappointed in an entry level table and give up. Although that in itself might not be a bad idea to prevent being totally sucked in!!

The VPI line up seems most appealing to me at this point. My research has been very limited, yet what I have learned sways me in that direction. Dave, I just may take you up on that wonderful offer to hear your system.

So it is off to Quicken for me now and let it do its magic and tell me when I have enough budget!!!

Thanks again, Gordon

 

[User211]

I know I am a bit late in this one, but don't forget, Gordan, you are running a pair of Spires. That is a seriosuly good loudspeaker, so if anything front-end is not up to par, you are going to hear it.

One more thought, Michell make outstanding TTs, but I don't know if US pricing makes them not so competitive. A classic combo is a Gyrodec/Rega RB300 or Tecnoarm, which is upgradeable to Orbe status. But you could try a Tecnodec. They last for years, too, and the design doesn't change much. Mine is 18 years old, as good as new to look at, and sounds fantastic. Always a well reviewed TT, and fantastic to look at with the spinning weights below the platter. It'll take top quality arms and carts with no probs, either.

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/

Whilst the website isn't brilliant, the TTs are.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Gordon, another cartridge for you to consider...The Clearaudio Virtuoso. I love this cartridge in my Scout. Here's a review...

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/hw2.htm