Whats happening to this Forum???

[Mantana]

Today I have come to a sudden conclusion. This forum has started to loose its main content. "Martin Logan". We have threads that are about how many esoteric watches you own. What other expensive hobbies do you do. I sold my best friend "NOW IM DEPRESSED"... Better run... MARTIN LOGAN is going down the tubes. Its been a while since I have felt the old relevance of the site. Members are being bullied and banned, Members are self promoting and using the site to do it. I find this to be common practice as of late.
There seems to be a loss of real knowledge based threads by original posters. They either left the site or will refrain from posting. I have seen many a old knowledge base leave or stop posting. I am not against a good debate but topics and threads have waned.


Sorry folks if I seem like Im ranting, I AM. Apparently I failed the "ANGER QUIZ".... However; I did see we have "A FEW MEMBERS AWAOL" I know sites grow with new members and new ideas but lets stop the self promotion and self loathing and get back to what its all about. AUDIO. SOUND REPRODUCTION. Shared knowledge about REAL topics. Lets not BAN members for expressing opinions and lets stop the bullying and the self promotions. I DONT CARE if you run a magaazine, I dont care how depressed you are for selling a speaker that wasn't even a ML. Take a Prozac and sit in the corner. I do not want to know you have 6 Rolex watches. I don't care that you have 4 other hobbies that are all more expensive than this one. Elitism is not something to be bragged about.



I know this will draw a lot of opinions but hey! They are like A**holes , we all have one and they all stink sometimes. Sometimes the truth hurts too.

Hey, i just sold my Spires and have seller's remorse from that
move as well. Was going to exchange my Montanas and Spires
for Acoustic Zen Crescendos. I had wanted to get lighter &
more mobile but an opportunity came up on the Crescendos. I
have $9600 from the sales...now i can't seem to pull the
trigger...they're just too heavy. Since i I had already
committed to sell the Logans, i couldn't back out.

Now i'm thinking about scaling down to a pair of Definitive
Tech Mythos STs....anyone heard them? ....i'll try the used
market for around 2k to save my remaining
$7500 (not that anyone gives a damn). I expect the
usual earful after this turn of events. Blast away...

It's kind of a relief actually....no heavy wooden crates or
large awkward boxes to deal with. Too bad i have to give
up the good sound. Hope scaling down in price and sound
isn't too drastic. A Sim I7, Mythos ST combination...never
had a system where my amp costs more than my speakers.

 

[Bernard]

or chocolate in nature, are worth collecting, possessing, lusting after or just worth eating

Did someone say, "CHOCOLATE" ?

Joe, time for some levity here. Help me out, big guy !

 

[JMAUSGP]

That was for you Bernard, just making sure you are still reading threads.

Although I must admit, I too have an addiction to chocolate. The problem is it may make me elite, but not so light on my feet.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Hey, i just sold my Spires and have seller's remorse from that
move as well. Was going to exchange my Montanas and Spires
for Acoustic Zen Crescendos. I had wanted to get lighter &
more mobile but an opportunity came up on the Crescendos. I
have $9600 from the sales...now i can't seem to pull the
trigger...they're just too heavy. Since i I had already
committed to sell the Logans, i couldn't back out.

Now i'm thinking about scaling down to a pair of Definitive
Tech Mythos STs....anyone heard them? ....i'll try the used
market for around 2k to save my remaining
$7500 (not that anyone gives a damn). I expect the
usual earful after this turn of events. Blast away...

It's kind of a relief actually....no heavy wooden crates or
large awkward boxes to deal with. Too bad i have to give
up the good sound. Hope scaling down in price and sound
isn't too drastic. A Sim I7, Mythos ST combination...never
had a system where my amp costs more than my speakers.

Mantana,

My first guess was that you were attempting some dark humor to get a rise out of the group...maybe, maybe not.

I would take the $9600, double it and get a pair of CLXs from your nearest dealer. They don't weigh anything, since the dealer will come in and set them up for you. You do not have to lift a finger.

You can even put them on gliders so you can move them at will after the dealer leaves.

CLXs combined with a used Descent i are almost unbeatable and you will never have to worry about selling them as they can literally be the last speakers you every own.

Based on panel life and the coming solar storm in 2012, it's a no brainer

 

[David Matz]

My take on things is that Audio is an experience masking as products (speakers, amps, bass traps, etc.). Experiences are intangible and are hard to verbalize. If people have not experienced similar things, they will have a hard time connecting. Many people don't get that, so there are a lot of questions that seem "off-base". How is Conrad Johnson different from ARC or from Cary - in a current product line, in product lines 10 years ago? With different speakers, with different types of music, in different rooms, listening with different friends?

The more people experience different audio products, the more value they can add in their posts. People vacationing only in Mexico every year would not add a lot of value to someone looking to take a trip to Australia or China. However, if 2 people have travelled to similar places, they can have a meaningful conversation.

I also agree that unless one is constantly swapping out stuff, there is just not that much to talk about after a while. Of course, new products come along once in a while...

Finally, I do agree that this is just a forum. No one is forcing folks to read about watches or politics, or even read posts in interesting threads from individuals they find annoying.

This is a hobby, afterall. We all have great systems (compared to the rest of the world) and we should be thankful there is a forum that can add value to our enjoyment of the music - even if it's once a week or once a month.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Hey, i just sold my Spires and have seller's remorse from that
move as well. Was going to exchange my Montanas and Spires
for Acoustic Zen Crescendos. I had wanted to get lighter &
more mobile but an opportunity came up on the Crescendos. I
have $9600 from the sales...now i can't seem to pull the
trigger...they're just too heavy. Since i I had already
committed to sell the Logans, i couldn't back out.

Now i'm thinking about scaling down to a pair of Definitive
Tech Mythos STs....anyone heard them? ....i'll try the used
market for around 2k to save my remaining
$7500 (not that anyone gives a damn). I expect the
usual earful after this turn of events. Blast away...

It's kind of a relief actually....no heavy wooden crates or
large awkward boxes to deal with. Too bad i have to give
up the good sound. Hope scaling down in price and sound
isn't too drastic. A Sim I7, Mythos ST combination...never
had a system where my amp costs more than my speakers.

Montana, have you heard the Von Schweikert Unifield 3? Seriously good speakers I think.

 

[Mantana]

Montana, have you heard the Von Schweikert Unifield 3? Seriously good speakers I think.

i read good reviews on the sound & they're not too heavy, but
are rather expensive...surely won't win any awards for
looks. Wonder if we have a dealer in Denver...

 

[raygunn]

hey...your not the only one!:rocker:

Ditto, guys!!!! :rocker:

..and by the way, check out my AXPONA coverage! :devil:

 

[Gordon Gray]

Mantana,

Lots of good speakers out there for $10K, especially on the used market.

You just need to find the one that suits your tastes and weight issues.

I was really impressed with the Merlin VSM I heard at this years RMAF. Relatively compact in size but weigh in at 85 / speaker. They are voiced on the somewhat "transparent" side of the audio equation but have alot of mid bass / low end punch and definition. An audition is well advised.

Other contenders include Avalon, the new Thiel and the B & W "diamond" series. I would also consider Steve's recommendation.

Seems like your best bet is to attend some audio shows like RMAF or visit your local audio salons in Denver. This will give you the opportunity to hear many speakers in all price ranges.

GG

 

[raygunn]

It can also be just simply a matter of relevance...

Many of us here are very long-term Martin Logan owners.
I for one have had ML's in my system since 1988 or so and have owned countless models and iterations.

I know there are enough of us that share in the same experience. However, there are also many that have left the ML (ownership) "family" over the past 2 or so years, due to economic conditions, downsixzing, Home Theatre/family-friendly sorts of pressures, etc.

From that standpoint, I venture to guess that there are more of us leaving than those entering the "family" because the ML brand has lost some of it's exposure as "high-end" and also because people that are new to high end audio just don't understand or "get" electrostatics.

Those of us that *do* get it, know that we are likely to have ML's or electrostats for life!

My $.02.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[raygunn]

Don't you think that maybe...

judging speakers on their merit per kilo or merit per pound is a bit peculiar??

If you just need "out" from planars, just say so, lol.

Otherwise, check out the King Sound "King". It was a nice surprise at AXPONA and quite affordable. I may go as far as to say that it is a CLX alternative at a down to earth price.

Cheers,
Ray

 

[Mantana]

Mantana,

Lots of good speakers out there for $10K, especially on the used market.

You just need to find the one that suits your tastes and weight issues.

I was really impressed with the Merlin VSM I heard at this years RMAF. Relatively compact in size but weigh in at 85 / speaker. They are voiced on the somewhat "transparent" side of the audio equation but have alot of mid bass / low end punch and definition. An audition is well advised.

Other contenders include Avalon, the new Thiel and the B & W "diamond" series. I would also consider Steve's recommendation.

Seems like your best bet is to attend some audio shows like RMAF or visit your local audio salons in Denver. This will give you the opportunity to hear many speakers in all price ranges.

GG

Thanks Gordon,

I've always been curious about the Merlins...i'll have to research them.
Had a pair of Thiels, the 1.5s but they were too veiled and bright.
Only kept them 6 months...I hear the 3.7 is supposed to be warmer,
but i tend to shy away from the Thiel sound.

I liked the Zu Essence at RMAF...i would consider those in
a small room. Since i have a fairly large room, i need a full range
speaker. I appreciated the way the Montanas and Spires could
fill up the room.

I'll probably take some time to decide. Thanks to all
for the suggestions.

 

[Jimna]

i dont understand the weight thing? once they are placed why does weight matter?

 

[Mantana]

i dont understand the weight thing? once they are placed why does weight matter?

I just stress out thinking i'll need to move them someday...
right now i have my house up for sale. I may need to
move into an apartment before buying a new place.
2 moves in a short time is too much for me right now...

 

[Gordon]

I think what's happening here is an unnatural ebb and flow of the site. It has become a spot for people to vent about the recent major changes by ML. Most of us are passionate about our HT's or 2 channel systems which are fronted by ML, from entry level to top of the line which should be respected irrespective of income levels.

ML has had a clearance sale on some speakers to move the merchandise. Some of these people have come here seeking advice and have been ignored by members. Perhaps it hints at elitism that the entry level guys are not welcome here. I find that offensive. Today's entry level guy is tomorrows CLX owner.

Over the past two years I've been a member here, I've always thought that this group was a sleepy little enclave who only shared the secret handshake and kiss the ring for a small group. I don't mean that in a negative way. I've appreciated every bit of advice I've received here and would not have the great sounding system without it. ML is going more mainstream and there are going to be more mainstream folks posting here which should be in my opinion, accepted.

I'm a member of several audio sites and find this one to be the most enjoyable. This site is my Goldilocks and three bears analogy. Right in the middle. One site is a slug fest and another is a love in. All sites have an off topic area to talk whatever and I enjoy some of the topics. Fish nailed it above. Unless you're an endless tweaker there is only so much you can do.

I've cut back on my posting at all sites due to a lifestyle change, not because of a dislike of the site. Seems I smoke like a dragon while surfing and I'm trying to stop. As an aside, I was on a certain stop smoking drug for a month and had to stop it. The side effects were unbearable.

Tom, please don't pull the plug. What your doing is here is appreciated by me and I'm sure by many others even though it is not said often enough.

Gordon

 

[Bernard]

Hey, i just sold my Spires and have seller's remorse from that
move as well.

Seller's remorse is easy to fix - buy another pair!

 

[rw_designs]

ML has had a clearance sale on some speakers to move the merchandise. Some of these people have come here seeking advice and have been ignored by members. Perhaps it hints at elitism that the entry level guys are not welcome here. I find that offensive. Today's entry level guy is tomorrows CLX owner. Gordon

It can be like that but its alot worse on some other sites. Usually the "Big Bucks" herd in and have you feeling like you should have known the answers to the questions you ask or actually have tens of thousands to spend every day on gear. Simple questions, fewer answers.

For the most part I've seen good support here on this site but have also seen a quick drop of a topic when it gets too difficult to communicate.

 

[conrad1]

Tom, please don't pull the plug. What your doing is here is appreciated by me and I'm sure by many others even though it is not said often enough.

Gordon[/QUOTE]

2nd Gordon's thanks and appreciation Tom! Your work and club members comments, thoughts and opinions are valuable and appreciated!

As a new member to the hobbie and to ML products, I find myself drawn to the club due to the insights of the members. I and I would guess a large sub-set of new users, don't post a lot becauses we are too busy reading/searching. If we get stuck you can always reach out.

Stating the obvious, the threads prove that the vast majority of members seem more than willing to help and share the hobbie/passion. Thanks for creating this.

ken

 

[cyclone]

Today I have come to a sudden conclusion. This forum has started to loose its main content. "Martin Logan". We have threads that are about how many esoteric watches you own. What other expensive hobbies do you do. I sold my best friend "NOW IM DEPRESSED"... Better run... MARTIN LOGAN is going down the tubes. Its been a while since I have felt the old relevance of the site. Members are being bullied and banned, Members are self promoting and using the site to do it. I find this to be common practice as of late.
There seems to be a loss of real knowledge based threads by original posters. They either left the site or will refrain from posting. I have seen many a old knowledge base leave or stop posting. I am not against a good debate but topics and threads have waned.


Sorry folks if I seem like Im ranting, I AM. Apparently I failed the "ANGER QUIZ".... However; I did see we have "A FEW MEMBERS AWAOL" I know sites grow with new members and new ideas but lets stop the self promotion and self loathing and get back to what its all about. AUDIO. SOUND REPRODUCTION. Shared knowledge about REAL topics. Lets not BAN members for expressing opinions and lets stop the bullying and the self promotions. I DONT CARE if you run a magaazine, I dont care how depressed you are for selling a speaker that wasn't even a ML. Take a Prozac and sit in the corner. I do not want to know you have 6 Rolex watches. I don't care that you have 4 other hobbies that are all more expensive than this one. Elitism is not something to be bragged about.



I know this will draw a lot of opinions but hey! They are like A**holes , we all have one and they all stink sometimes. Sometimes the truth hurts too.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about other interests as long as they are posted in the correct places and threads aren't highjacked. There is only so much that can be said about Martin Logans and 99.9% has been said and can be found in the archives.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
This has been a strange time of late. The moving of Production from Kansas to Canada of the ESL Series coupled with the announcement that not all Legacy Models will be supported in the future has definitely caused some unease.

And it is true that Martin Logan has expanded into almost all price brackets going from 200 Dollars a pair to 25,000 Dollars a pair. That is a pretty wide gap. However, Companies like Dynaudio and Focal come fairly close in terms of price differential.

However, with Martin Logan, the Designs vary from Folded Motion Tweeters with conventional Woofers to ATF Ribbon Tweeters with Woofers in the Design Series to Electrostatic Designs with woofers in the Design/ESL/Reserve ESL Series to finally an all Electrostatic Design in the Flagship CLX.

For decades, Martin Logan's were synonymous with Electrostatic Speakers.
That is not the case anymore. Regardless of Model Owned, we all share a common love of Music and HT.

If the number of Members rise, it might be prudent to have Subforums for Electrostatic and Non Electrostatic Models. If only because many Owners of ESL Models might not be familiar with the ATF Designs or Motion Series. And vice versa. The ESL Models definitely have requirements to sound their best that perhaps the other Designs do not.

For instance, I would guess you would not need the Motion Series to be setup at least 3 feet away from the Back Wall for the best sound. Rather, you might want the bass reinforcement of setting them up closer to the Back Wall. Regardless of Speaker Owned, I certainly hope all feel welcome.
Cheers,
JJ