Wall Street protests

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Gordon Gray

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HI all,

I know this could be a "hot" topic but I trust we can all act like reasonable adults.

What are your impressions regarding this current phenomena?

The "left" version of the Tea Party?

Class warfare?

A passing movement or something that is getting traction and will have a meaningful, political impact?

I noticed Mr. Cantor is not a happy camper.

Personally, I'm surprised that as ambiguous and non "theme" organized that it is (which I believe is a good thing at this point), this (or something like it) hasn't occurred earlier.

GG
 
Truthfully Gordon I've done my best to avoid all thge BS surrounding it..................so..........is 'Robin Hood' out to get Wall Street ??
 
I think the great disparity of wealth in this country inevitably will lead to unrest, some major. The tea party and the current demonstrations are all fueled by this.

I feel a great sense of loss and frustration about what might have been. 2000-2008 were truly lost years . 2008- now have also been very difficult but for different reasons.
 
Dave,

I think it's a bit more complex (for better or worse) than that. But that's my perspective.

Best,

Gordon
 
I think the great disparity of wealth in this country inevitably will lead to unrest, some major. The tea party and the current demonstrations are all fueled by this.

I feel a great sense of loss and frustration about what might have been. 2000-2008 were truly lost years . 2008- now have also been very difficult but for different reasons.

Yes. Reminds me of the classic line from the movie "Network": "We're Mad as Hell, and We're not going to Take it Anymore!"

To think of the terrific shape the Country and the economy was in (including being on-track to eliminate the National Debt going into the year 2000, to the awful place we ended up in 2008 causes me to agree with you that 2000-2008 were lost years. What an awful tragedy to have inflicted on so many of our fellow citizens.
 
One of the protester signs read "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one".
 
I will throw a bit more into this discussion.

Some may consider it anecdotal but I do believe we can learn from history.

I believe it's generally recognized that Roosevelt Administration relaxed pro active government investment policies to bring our country out of the great depression, in the mid 1930's, and that policy of no longer being pro - active was recognized as a mistake. The same thing happened with Japan when that country was going through a similar economic stalemate in the 1990's.

I've been listening to various economic analysts and it seems, to me, the consensus is clear. Their collective opinion is that the President's current job bill proposal is a positive move (some say too modest) and is something that this country should pursue to create employment. One component is a tax surcharge on those that make more than those earning $1M to help pay for the proposed legislation. Creating jobs and allowing additional tax dollars to flow through our economy is recognized as the "principal engine" that will allow our economy to become healthy again.

The Republicans and Tea Party folks say any tax increase will negatively impact job growth in this country. I presume that is based on the "trickle down" effect. I find it interesting that this position is not supported by any "hard" analysis but is the general philosophical mantra one hears from the "right".

I also find it interesting that, prior to the Bush tax cuts, these same folks / corporations appeared to be making enough money and were not protesting the policy in place at the time, and that the tax policy was not inhibiting the growth of the US economy.

Now, subsequent to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the well documented Bank / Wall Street economic greed that caused the collapse in our housing market, their position has apparently changed.

I also find it interesting that the Republican / Tea Party folks were going to hold the US Government hostage to another budget crisis because FEMA needed additional funding to help those Americans that needed relief from natural disasters.

I also find it interesting that no one on the political right recognizes the positive impacts of the recent Federal stimulus program that allowed GM and Chrysler to become profitable again, and avoiding bankruptcy while saving jobs for millions of Americans.

Finally, I find it interesting that no Republican candidates recognize the phenomena of global warming and apparently believe that it is a movement amongst private sector climate scientists to "make money".

I'm certainly not saying that our government should allocate funding in a non responsible manner. However, it seems to me that the current political environment is losing site of what are responsible / defensible political policies that are in the best long term interests of this country, and it's ability to foster a healthy / sustaining environment for it's citizens and the economy thereof.

GG

PS: I forgot to add that there are those who would espouse / support the position that the EPA should be eliminated within the context of saving of Federal taxpayers dollars. We all know that Exxon and others have a proven track record / stewardship in protecting our environment.
 
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Good summary Gordon... I think the underlying vector is "oppose the current administration at virtually any cost to ensure victory in 2012" - Hypocrisy be damned, change-of-position be damned, environment be damned, basic human rights be damned, facts be damned. After watching the antics of the current contenders, not to mention the apparently blood-thristy, homophobic folks at attendance during the debates, I still wonder what's happened to the adults. Paul is the only one with a consistently on-point message - though I think "leaving it to the states" just invites 50x the conflagration. Too many brain-damaged governors in this country... with our "beloved" Maine governer pretty close to the top of that list.
 
Well stated Todd.

Although I have no conclusive proof, I do believe the current "right" policy is to oppose anything the Obama Administration wishes to accomplish, to enhance their chance for "winning" in 2012, regardless of its negative impacts / consequences on our economy.

Witness Mr. McConell's repeated statements that his principal goal is to make sure that "Obama is a one term President".

How sad.

And witness the fact that 75% of Americans polled support the Democrat's proposal to levy a tax surcharge of 5.4% for those whose incomes exceed $1M (approximately 1% of total US taxpayers) to help pay for the proposed jobs bill.

And in response, the Republicans (including all current presidential candidates) continue to be totally opposed to any tax hikes under the guise that it will negatively impact job growth that would otherwise be produced by the private sector.

That old trickle down theory I reckon.

GG
 
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Wow , seems like some of the protesters like the products the evil corporations produce.
 

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Well thought out and reasoned comments on a very serious topic, Gordon. Unfortunately, I see that rather than engage you in a serious discussion, Larry just posts his juvenile jokes to try to sidetrack the conversation. Reminds me of my favorite quote by Isaac Asimov: "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding it's way through our political and cultural life. Nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
 
Rich , It may be juvenile but still it has some merit and I think adds to the conversation . I am not an intellectual just a hard working capitalist who has enjoyed the fruits of the American dream. I did not realize there was a finite amount of money to earn in America? Maybe instead of protesting they should put there efforts towards inventing the next i-pad or facebook. You and Gordon seem to have enjoyed the fruits of your labor as well or you all would not be on this forum talking about your expensive stereos and cars and cigars.

You quoted Asimov I pulled the information from wikipedia maybe he might agree with me that these "irrationalist" political activists might be on the wrong path.

Asimov became a staunch supporter of the Democratic Party during the New Deal, and thereafter remained a political liberal. He was a vocal opponent of the Vietnam War in the 1960s and in a television interview during the early 1970s he publicly endorsed George McGovern. He was unhappy about what he considered an "irrationalist" viewpoint taken by many radical political activists from the late 1960s and onwards. In his second volume of autobiography, In Joy Still Felt, Asimov recalled meeting the counterculture figure Abbie Hoffman; Asimov's impression was that the 1960s' counterculture heroes had ridden an emotional wave which, in the end, left them stranded in a "no-man's land of the spirit" from which he wondered if they would ever return.

I also am not sure that the Occupy ( Wall Street, Myrtle Beach , Boston , Atlanta) crowd will help their chances of getting a job with an arrest record on their resume !!!
 
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Juvenile Rich? Here is a quote from you from one of the last political threads. Rich- "But that was trashed when the republicans allowed their party to be hijacked by the (teabaggers)." Actually the term was used a couple of times in that one thread by more than one person. That is one intellectual word to use in serious political dialogue.

I can't relate to most of these people in the Occupy Wall Street movement who are protesting the lack of jobs or the lack of money. Sure, I feel sorry that they can't find work and have loans to pay off. But did any of them think that instead of hanging out in New York or these other areas they might travel to an area of the country where jobs are available? I had to work all my summers and also campus jobs, while school was in session, to pay for my educational expenses. It took me a while to pay off my loans, but I got it done. It appears to me that a good number of these individuals really don't want to try to work there way up. But then, I guess that is the enviroment that all of the entitlements have helped to create.

I say let them have their voices be heard. At least in part ( Wall Street bailouts) they have part of the same message that the Tea Party expressed. I think they should stay in New York and protest for another 6 months or so. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
 
Hi Repman,

You seem to be confusing me with somebody else.

I don't recall ever talking about my expensive car and cigars. I bought my most recent vehicle used last year. It was 10 years old at time of purchase. Cost $8K. Previously, I had a Subaru, which was 10 years old when I sold it. Got $2,800 for it.

Cigars, never smoked them and can't stand them although I have no issues with those who enjoy them.

It's taken me thirty years to put together the audio system I have. And rarely do I switch out equipment. My preamp is 12 years old. My amp and CDP are four years plus old. Both were used when I bought them. The only reason I was able to get my MBL's was that they were used, cosmetically flawed, GTT Audio wanted to dump them and Bill gave me a generous trade in on my Summits. If you read my posts, I am very careful to not flagrantly espouse its virtues or brag about its cost.

I haven't had a raise in six years and the cost of living is not going down. As a single person, I can't share my expenses with anyone else and it gets tougher every year. It is very difficult for me to make ends meet at the end of the month. I would classify myself (from an income / economic perspective) as marginal middle class and its getting lower with each passing year.

So if you want to start throwing mud at me, please make sure you have your facts correct and stop making indefensible / insulting generalizations.

Gordon

PS: FWIW, I work for the local government because it allows me to make a positive impact on the quality of life for those who live here and those who visit. That's important to me. Rest assured you don't want to work for a government agency if one of your goals is to become wealthy, at least not in Teton County, WY.
 
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Gordon- I have always said that wealth is about far much more than money. I know some rich people in terms of money who never seem to be happy or satisfied.

I too would classify myself as middle income. I came onto this site at the beginning of 2009 to ask about what piece of stereo equipment would be best to upgrade, and was told to ditch my Onkyo receiver and get a more powerful amp to drive my Aeons. I'm still working towards saving for that amp. As a married man with a child, something always seems to come up that takes away from the stash that I'm working towards saving for the amp. Early in my marriage, I once stood in line at the bank getting ready to deposit my pay check and saw my wife through the drive through window getting ready to make a withdrawal! It's seems to have been that way ever since so to speak. So I'm not sure how much having someone to share the expense has really helped in my case.

You live in, in my opinion, the most beautiful part of our country and it sounds as though you're happy in what you do. That certainly makes you rich in many ways.
 
Gordon , I certianly did not mean to insult you , while you do own an expensive stereo I was really talking about Rich who had mentioned cars and cigars. So please accept my apology for the generalzation and including you in that comment.
 
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Well thought out and reasoned comments on a very serious topic, Gordon. Unfortunately, I see that rather than engage you in a serious discussion, Larry just posts his juvenile jokes to try to sidetrack the conversation.

For Gods sakes Rich, get a grip, you know damn well my feelings about these threads and the fact that on this forum we CAN HAVE these discussions along with an ounce or two of levity just to keep all things in check. Heck the Facebook clip that Larry linked to had me laughing as well, so don't get your britches in a bind that the earth is going to shift dramatically to to the right.
 
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