Vista's Versus Electromotion ESL's

[InterMechanico]

Rickk!!! Exchage for the Vistas! You won't disappointed. I stumbled into a pair a year ago at future shop (NIB< Full Warranty) for $1500.00, And i recently turned down $2250.00 for them because I know I'll never get something close to the same for that money> At 2000 a pair, I'd buy them again in a heart beat.

 

[fsmithjack]

The price point of the ESL speaker being driven down by attaining projected higher volume levels via its offering at BB and it being positioned as the most striking speaker featured in the Magnolia sound room. The amount of BB's out there and this speaker being positioned in all of the corresponding magnolia sound rooms at the most strategic and critical display area is quite telling. That highly prized real estate that immediately flanks the critical main display area right next to the main TV and the main audio set up area illustrates the commitment to the success of this speakers volume with regards to the marketing emphasis behind it by both partners BB and ML. This would make even the most casual observer of modern marketing and retail merchandizing theory see clearly that ML had to out compete the other manufactures for this much desired merchandising space. In order to obtain such a presence one would need have a serious and quantifiable marketing plan substantiated by verifiable target market data and BB demographic data to obtain those strategic marketing positions. After all of the corresponding data, focus groups, projection models and forecasting algorithms are thoroughly employed was then the ESL price point was effected. These dynamics coupled with projected increased volume levels had as much to do with this speakers price point vs it's actual abilities and the associated materiel manufacturing cost of build. Many companies will sell such strategically positioned products at cost or even loss to gain the exposure, growth, units in operation and to gain market share to get the company to the other side of the road. I am of the opinion that this ESL speaker at its forced down price point is an absolute steal and offers "way more" dynamic ability, hi-fidelity and HT versatility than its price point would suggest. It's a modern and trendy piece of technology with nice build quality, fresh and modern design with quality materiel's and just shouldn't be available at $1,000 a pop. This speaker is a prime example of a loss leader and based on the commitment clearly employed by both partners it was not put in this position to fail. Heck Outside of the very knowledgeable and intelligent audio community the rest of the world still thinks Bose makes the best speakers and audio products out there. As a company you can't just break through to the other side and gain mass market appeal and vastly increased brand awareness and development by just making amazing products and adding in a certain profit margin and then selling for them what they are and/or can do. This would shed light as to why possibly the ML rep could not honestly say which speaker is better when the op called ML. Now when I made my last point I must admit I was entering it in on my iPhone, while at work and half paying attention and it was a not nearly as clearly developed as i would have liked now as I am re-reading I deserve some criticism for that but it was my first post on here. I just don't think the ML rep on the phone was some clueless person who didn't know what to say I think he like me just wasn't sure how to say it...

 

[edwinr]

You're right, fsmithjack. Martin Logan have sunk a lot of research and money into the EM speakers. They're following all this hard work up with a very clever marketing strategy. The EM is an outstanding design, offered at below cost price - with the objective of snatching sales away from the current market leaders. Hopefully an astute buyer, hearing Martin Logan speakers for the first time, and comparing them with competing models, will opt to buy the EM speakers over anything else in the store. It's a brave move by ML.

This is not to take anything away from the EM design - it's absolutely amazing. If you wanted a current model, the EM is a real alternative to superseded 'new in box' Martin Logans on sound quality alone - they're that good.

 

[gander222]

Speaker cables

Some say speaker cables and power cords don't make a diff

Speaker cables can make a HUGE difference. I custom make my own speaker cables and when I took them to a friend's house, whose system is WAY better than mine. the difference was so huge that he traded me a Butler Audio 2250 stereo amp ($3000 new) for one set of my speaker cables and one set of my interconnects. They made that much difference. Of course there is no one perfect cable for all system, but for his Martin Logan SL3's they are heaven.

I'm not saying this to sell cables - I make them for fun right now - but only to emphasize that changing cables is kind of like tube swapping. They all make a system sound different. And since there is no such thing as perfect music reproduction, all we can do is decide what kind of distortion (change from the "original" signal) we like, and go from there.

Thanks, and happy listening!

Gary

 

[hanbearpig]

Speaker cables can make a HUGE difference. I custom make my own speaker cables and when I took them to a friend's house, whose system is WAY better than mine. the difference was so huge that he traded me a Butler Audio 2250 stereo amp ($3000 new) for one set of my speaker cables and one set of my interconnects. They made that much difference. Of course there is no one perfect cable for all system, but for his Martin Logan SL3's they are heaven.

I'm not saying this to sell cables - I make them for fun right now - but only to emphasize that changing cables is kind of like tube swapping. They all make a system sound different. And since there is no such thing as perfect music reproduction, all we can do is decide what kind of distortion (change from the "original" signal) we like, and go from there.

Thanks, and happy listening!

Gary

This is like saying that a Jpeg image stored on a different drive looks better due to the hard drive. Or, hmmm, better yet is that a new and better USB cable will make your photos look better when transferring to a computer. Some people use the term psychoacoustics. This is the only viable explanation IMO, unless the speaker wire gauge wasn't sufficient or some physical limiting factor. People don't do this with any other hobby but why it's such a big deal in audio is confusing to me.

 

[hanbearpig]

I just realized the thread date. My apologies gentlemen. I'm new to this forum stuff.

 

[ML Goat]

Speaker cables can make a HUGE difference. I custom make my own speaker cables and when I took them to a friend's house, whose system is WAY better than mine. the difference was so huge that he traded me a Butler Audio 2250 stereo amp ($3000 new) for one set of my speaker cables and one set of my interconnects. They made that much difference. Of course there is no one perfect cable for all system, but for his Martin Logan SL3's they are heaven.

I'm not saying this to sell cables - I make them for fun right now - but only to emphasize that changing cables is kind of like tube swapping. They all make a system sound different. And since there is no such thing as perfect music reproduction, all we can do is decide what kind of distortion (change from the "original" signal) we like, and go from there.

Thanks, and happy listening!

Gary

What kind of a guy is going to rob his friend like that?

 

[hanbearpig]

What kind of a guy is going to rob his friend like that?

...yeah, perhaps his friend insisted that he take the amp, because the cables were so awesome.

Anyhow Goat, how are you liking your ESLs? I followed a lot of your posts from Mirage OMD to DefTech 8060 to ESLs. I actually had the full intent of going with the Mirage OMD 15 setup and ended up with the DefTech 8060 that I found to be more of a 'bang and sizzle' type of speakers. Then I went onto Kef q900 which sounded pretty good but the cabinet quality was just horrible. So I've the ESLs now mated to a sub and I'm pretty happy thus far.