Vibrations & isolation

[miljac]

Hello fellow ML'ers,

this evening I have given in to curiosity and finally gathered strength to move my heavy SACD player from the (glass) rack and replace the absorber feet, MDF/cork/MDF sandwich platform and spikes underneath the player with a 12" bicycle tube (price: 2 EUR).

Now the player reacts to the touch almost like my Thorens 126

The improvement is really big. In all aspects. The thing kept me listening until 2:00 AM (now it's 2:11 AM my time). Just beautiful. Now I have to listen to my complete collection again, this will take a loong time.


What interests me is your experiences with and opinions on platforms, isolation feet etc. What works for you best? What is/was the most cost effective solution? The ultimate solution?

Of course, not only for sources - amps and loudspeakers too.


Thank you.

miljac

 

[Reverb2009]

In my opinion the Grand Prix Audio isolation stands are the ultimate solutions to vibration control. Each platform offers 8 different forms of isolation equaling one fantastic peace. But be prepared to break the bank their stuff is not cheap.

www.grandprixaudio.com

Also Aurios isolation bearings have worked grate for me too.

 

[DTB300]

..... underneath the player with a 12" bicycle tube (price: 2 EUR).

Allen Wright of VSE just posted about this "cheap tweak" over at the Asylum.

Dan

 

[Reverb2009]

Allen Wright of VSE just posted about this "cheap tweak" over at the Asylum.

Dan

Do you have a link?

 

[dyazdani]

Allen Wright of VSE just posted about this "cheap tweak" over at the Asylum.

Dan

I've used this tweak before on several components. It's nice and simple i.e. cheap, not sure on the sonic merits but it's worth a shot.

 

[miljac]

Allen Wright of VSE just posted about this "cheap tweak" over at the Asylum.

Dan

Hi Dan,

indeed found it.
I must admit that I have seen it first at Allen's place while he was still in Munich, finally decided to try it out after a long time and was pleasantly surprised. My 555ES is not as heavy as SCD-1 or 777ES, but with about 4 kg additional mechanical damping (bitumen) it weighs around 20kg. And the bike tube works like a charm.
Not a cosmetical highlight though. Still - underneath a big black piece of equipment fairly "invisible". Must try to put it under the McIntosh.

miljac

 

[zaphod]

Hello fellow ML'ers,

...What interests me is your experiences with and opinions on platforms, isolation feet etc. What works for you best? What is/was the most cost effective solution? The ultimate solution?

Of course, not only for sources - amps and loudspeakers too.

i looked into a number of solutions for isolation when it looked like i would have to put the amp for my sub on top of my sub. (i since worked out a way not to do that.

looking about i found that labs which need to isolate high precision scales (the ones that are in glass boxes to prevent air currents from affecting the measurement!) use ...

bicycle tubes​

gosh science is handy.

so i found a 12 inch tube and nearly kissed the vibration problems away. nearly because the amp i was using wasn't symetrically balanced and tilted WAAAAAAY over to one side.

the solution was to use a trio of scooter inner tubes, arranged like a triangle with two under the heavy side and one under the light side. scooter tubes tend to have the air valve shoot out sideways, but i found hanco corp - model TUB702P - had a parrellel valve stem and at 8 inches, served me perfectly.

if your amp/cd/whatever is lop-weighted, then try a trio of TUB702P tubes from Hanco.

 

[miljac]

i looked into a number of solutions for isolation when it looked like i would have to put the amp for my sub on top of my sub. (i since worked out a way not to do that.

looking about i found that labs which need to isolate high precision scales (the ones that are in glass boxes to prevent air currents from affecting the measurement!) use ...

bicycle tubes​

gosh science is handy.

so i found a 12 inch tube and nearly kissed the vibration problems away. nearly because the amp i was using wasn't symetrically balanced and tilted WAAAAAAY over to one side.

the solution was to use a trio of scooter inner tubes, arranged like a triangle with two under the heavy side and one under the light side. scooter tubes tend to have the air valve shoot out sideways, but i found hanco corp - model TUB702P - had a parrellel valve stem and at 8 inches, served me perfectly.

if your amp/cd/whatever is lop-weighted, then try a trio of TUB702P tubes from Hanco.

It's good to know that the thing has some scientific backing

 

[kach22i]

I've found that some equiptment needs little or no special feet. The the heavy well made stuff needs it least, and the lighter made equipment really gets a boost out of it.

The reason is "resonant frequency", which is the greater part of what you are altering with special feet/support.

I think miljac's situation was that the glass shelf had a higher resonant frequency than his heavy SACD player, and was somehow missed matched in that set-up.

I've found glass when used in combination with rubber type feet to be an excellent tweeking material. However the results have been split; good under lighter weight equipment, not of much use under heavy equipment.

 

[miljac]

I've found that some equiptment needs little or no special feet. The the heavy well made stuff needs it least, and the lighter made equipment really gets a boost out of it.

The reason is "resonant frequency", which is the greater part of what you are altering with special feet/support.

I think miljac's situation was that the glass shelf had a higher resonant frequency than his heavy SACD player, and was somehow missed matched in that set-up.

I've found glass when used in combination with rubber type feet to be an excellent tweeking material. However the results have been split; good under lighter weight equipment, not of much use under heavy equipment.

Interesting ... when placed directly on glass with stock Sony feet my player delivered what I can best describe as compressed soundstage with blurred details. Guess this is a mechanical tradeoff in cheaper players (compared with >25 kg monsters with better distributed mass to control the vibration). Maybe the mechanical discontinuum at glas/feet junction forced occurrence of "unfriendly" resonances although by the book it would be the discontinuum that should force higher frequency/smaller amplitude/more easily controllable resonances (please excuse me being much less than half-literate in mechanics). Any idea that would explain this behaviour? Was already much better with rubber feet/MDF/spikes and now even better which somehow hints at 3-4 not so sharp discontinuums instead of 1-2 "abrupt" ones. Maybe less abrupt discontinuum means greater energy converted in heat instead of being reflected back?
Anyway, it was said that the air has been the best insulator - seems to work splendidly in my case.

 

[kach22i]

Anyway, it was said that the air has been the best insulator - seems to work splendidly in my case.

Air is a good insulator which kind of sends the energy back into the unit via "air spring" resonance frequency.

I think air works best with lots of weight/mass above it. The lighter equipment is just tuned too high and undampened (I think - kind of making this up as I go).

In general I've found the rubbery things add bounce and life to the music. However too much and it can get out of control and wobbly. The sorbothane mat I have on my turntable expands and widens the soundstage - had to add marble or glass under it afterwords to re-tune it and make it sharper.

Glass is a clean clear sound but often glares at you when pushed too far.

Steel is strong but cold.

Wood is warm but grainy.

So you see, my basic theory of sound is; a material will add it's basic character to the sound - for better or worse.

Note: I did not read about this "theory" - I made it up based on many in-house experiments and trusted my ears.

 

[MarkNewbie]

What interests me is your experiences with and opinions on platforms, isolation feet etc. What works for you best? What is/was the most cost effective solution? The ultimate solution?

Of course, not only for sources - amps and loudspeakers too.


Thank you.

miljac

It was for this very reason that I sought out and bought the Arcici Suspension Rack. There are three separate innertubes that sit under and support a 70 pound steel plate. The plate has four rods that hang down and support the four shelves. Each shelf is rated to hold up to 300 pounds each. The rack is only rated for a total of 600 pounds though. You can view pictures as I have them posted. I considered it the ultimate solution for isolation in my situation. At some point I will be adding a turntable that will sit on the very top. I have a large collection of records and miss not being able to play them. Good luck in your quest.

 

[kach22i]

And it's pretty too.

http://www.audiophileclub.co.uk/arcici.html

 

[Sunnyboy 1956]

tube isolation(sic !)

Totally concur with Miljac's experience. Have been using 12" bicycle tubes under my tube preamp with pretty good results, initially in a toughened glass rack and now in a wood/mdf rack. Was unable to balance the TT and cdp using the 12"tube.The TT now rests on a 1/2" soft wood plank which has 3 vibrapods under it. The vibrapods in turn rest in a 1" granite slab which sits on the mdf rack. A similar and equally effective tweak with the cdp(Arcam FMJ CD 23). The cdp has 4 vibrapods resting on a 1" softwood plank which rests on a 1" granite slab placed on the mdf rack. Sounds complicated but provides endless permutations and the prospect of me reaching senility pretty soon !!
The sound is awesome and I have no clue whether its on account of my homegrown isolation or the excellent single malt...
NJoy

 

[zaphod]

Was unable to balance the TT and cdp using the 12"tube.The TT now rests on a 1/2" soft wood plank which has 3 vibrapods under it. ...

if you are having trouble balancing the TT under a single 12", try a trio of 8" tubes instead like i described above.

The sound is awesome and I have no clue whether its on account of my homegrown isolation or the excellent single malt...
NJoy

ah, another SM fan. last thing i needed was another expensive hobby, but before i knew it i had a scotch collection. sigh. and just when it was under control, Lagavulin started selling the 12 year again in Canada. sigh.

 

[Sunnyboy 1956]

single malt and isolation

zaphod
You are spot on.Laguvulin had all but disappeared except from some fancy high street shops in London.Its made a comeback at Heathrow duty free.In its absence have been getting merry on 18 yr Cao Ila(?). A Kind of Blue never sounded better.
Have Fun