Unbalanced to Balanced cables?

[captain_tinker]

Is there such a thing as unbalanced to balanced cables? I saw something on bluejeanscable.com that seemed to suggest such a thing.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/balancedaudio/index.htm

(under the "other connectors" heading) I am just curious, would this be useful at all? Would you get any of the perks of using the balanced cables at all this way? I am asking because most amps have balanced jacks available in addition to the unbalanced RCA connectors, and my receiver only puts out unbalanced RCA from the pre-amp connectors. So I am just wondering if that would even be worth looking into.

-capT

 

[twich54]

No benefit for your situation that I can see, when interconnecting components whose topology is "balanced", than yes one can argue for the sonic merit of balanced IC's. To the best of my knowledge the only other possible benefit would be when long runs of IC's are required, say in excess of 5 meters.

 

[David Matz]

As mentioned, Balanced is of value only if equipment is properly designed for balanced. Otherwise, it's the same circuit with just a different connector.

If properly designed (ie Ayre, Bryston), the benefits are quieter background, more 3 dimensional sound, better imaging, etc. Well worth it if your equipment is properly designed.

 

[Nik]

What about Sunfire?
Would running RCA to XLR be better than running RCAs?
Nik

 

[Brian_74]

What about Sunfire?
Would running RCA to XLR be better than running RCAs?
Nik

Same answer. Experts, correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't believe it's going to be any benefit regardless of the type of ampilfier you have. It has more to do with the way balanced interconnects work than with any particular brand of equipment. Also as was mentioned, the piece of equipment has to be built using a "balanced design". A lot of amps with balanced inputs are simply converted to unbalanced internally in the amplifier.

The main reason bluejeans offers the RCA to XLR adapters is to allow you to connect your equipment between components that may only have one type of input, either XLR or RCA only. For example, many pro audio components only have XLR inputs/outputs (where long cable runs are very typical) so this adapter allows you to use them with your other components that may only have RCA inputs/outputs.

 

[DTB300]

Here is a quote from a designer of well known equipment:

"A properly done balanced circuit (and connection) will always sound better than an equivalent unbalanced circuit."

And besides Ayre and Bryston who were already mentioned, Plinius also offers a Balanced Circuit in their amps.

 

[MiTT]

Here is a quote from a designer of well known equipment:

"A properly done balanced circuit (and connection) will always sound better than an equivalent unbalanced circuit."

And besides Ayre and Bryston who were already mentioned, Plinius also offers a Balanced Circuit in their amps.

Agreed, and I'd also mention Balanced Audio Technology (BAT). Note the word "Balanced" in the name. It ain't there just to sound cool, all of their circuits are true fully differential.

Dave is right in his assessment of the Blue Jeans cable. There will be no sonic benefit, it's for convenience when connecting "incompatible" components only. It could be argued that connecting a single ended signal to a fully differntial one may actually cause an adverse situation.

 

[JonFo]

As a guy who has a bunch of Balanced gear in the system, I'd agree with what's been mentioned above. Only use these type of cable adapters if there is no other option. And even then, I'd argue that one actually needs a matching circuit (if the receiving equipment does not have it) to match the level of gain and impedance required to interface unbalanced to balanced.

For instance, I have three Jensen ISO-Max DM2-RX 1:1 transformers that have RCA inputs and XLR Balanced outputs.
The transformer provides completed electrical isolation between source and back-end systems (no ground loops, no DC passing) and essentially gives a very clean break between balanced and unbalanced worlds. I find them extremely transparent.
Many high-end pro-gear units actually have these transformers in their input circuits to ensure clean interfaces.

I highly recommend these devices for matching with pro-audio gear in a rig.

 

[roberto]

just thinking loud...

Hola chicos...just thinking loud, I wonder why Conrad Johnson never went to balanced connectors, being one of the most expensive and super good audio gear on these days. Once I asked them, and they replay to me that balanced meant to have everything double, one complete circuit board for the + signal and other board for the - signal...so there are many balanced pre amps and power amps that are singled endend, with only the balanced connector, making this just a way to have an interconnect feature, not really trully fully balanced...as an example, Baron Mesa power amp has the balance connector, but it is not double, and Krell, Audio Research is trully balanced, Mark Levinson too. There are some that are trully balanced, but not all. Beware friends, not all brands are trully balanced...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[edwinr]

Very true, Roberto. Rotel is another company that promotes their product as being 'balanced'. But that is in philosophy only. While Rotel provide balanced connectors, the internal design is not truly balanced. Fully balanced products are much more expensive to manufacturer and thus command higher prices in the store.

 

[captain_tinker]

What about Sunfire?

Ok then, so if what you are saying is true, that not all manufacturers who provide a "balanced" connection truly provide a real balanced circuit, then does Sunfire do that too? I would not be able to do balanced cables yet, but eventually I was hoping to go that direction. If it isn't worth doing then I guess I won't worry about it.

-capT

 

[roberto]

Ok then, so if what you are saying is true, that not all manufacturers who provide a "balanced" connection truly provide a real balanced circuit, then does Sunfire do that too? I would not be able to do balanced cables yet, but eventually I was hoping to go that direction. If it isn't worth doing then I guess I won't worry about it.

-capT

Hola...ask your dealer regarding it...a truly balanced brand advertise it, or talks about it...you need everything double...the circuit design is dual. With this array, it is what is called truly balanced. The ground floor is better and the S/R is lower. To my ears, I like SS balanced. It gives lower noise floor and better overall tone and stage sense. On tubes, I like sigle ended...I don't know why is this...all what I do is trust in my ears...happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Here is a quote from a designer of well known equipment:

"A properly done balanced circuit (and connection) will always sound better than an equivalent unbalanced circuit."

QUOTE]

Some single ended designers might argue with that. Of course, is there a balanced circuit equivalent? I like balanced for the option of being able to run long interconnects.

 

[captain_tinker]

Ok then so balanced is really only to be used for long interconnects? Well if that is so, then is five to 6 feet considered long for interconnects? If not, then I guess I may just stick with the single ended.

-capT

 

[roberto]

Here is a quote from a designer of well known equipment:

"A properly done balanced circuit (and connection) will always sound better than an equivalent unbalanced circuit."

QUOTE]

Some single ended designers might argue with that. Of course, is there a balanced circuit equivalent? I like balanced for the option of being able to run long interconnects.

Hola...this quote is true for long runs of cable, and the impedance is setted for 600 ohms. Usually unbalaced impedance is over 10K ohms. I do believe that Conrad Johnson is a true high-end brand and they say it does not worth it to have everything double. They say it is a waste to do it on the circuit topology that they use on their own designs. I wonder too if this is true or not, but you don´t find any Conrad Johnson with balanced connectors. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Brian_74]

Ok then so balanced is really only to be used for long interconnects? Well if that is so, then is five to 6 feet considered long for interconnects? If not, then I guess I may just stick with the single ended.

-capT

Once again, speaking from what I've read, but I don't think 5-6 feet would be considered long. More like 20 feet before the signal loss is significant enough for you to need balanced ICs.

Now a question for the experts, if I may. I assume that the lower noise claim is made by SNR measurements. Is the noise floor really lower with balanced, or is the signal voltage simply higher? Either would increase the signal-to-noise ratio.

 

[roberto]

Once again, speaking from what I've read, but I don't think 5-6 feet would be considered long. More like 20 feet before the signal loss is significant enough for you to need balanced ICs.

Now a question for the experts, if I may. I assume that the lower noise claim is made by SNR measurements. Is the noise floor really lower with balanced, or is the signal voltage simply higher? Either would increase the signal-to-noise ratio.

In balanced the signal is twice the value of the voltage, them assumed the noise is lower...but have to deal with two grounds, crossing by 0, right?...my ears don´t like balanced in tubes, prefer single ended, :musicnote: but they do in SS, I wonder why. Happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[Craig]

I don't think the Sunfire amps are balanced. The power connector does not have a ground pin. Don't you need a ground circuit for a balanced topology?

By the way, one advantage to the Sunfire amps not having a ground pin means they are not susceptible to ground loop hum.