Transparent Ultra to Reference on Summit X's?

[Beachbound]

I have just switched out a pair of Transparent Ultra MM1 speaker cables for a pair of Reference MM2's on my Summit X's. The bass is deeper and tighter but I have to say, although I don't have the Ultra's around anymore, they had a larger soundstage and a palpability with vocals that was unreal!! I was told that the Reference has more "detail". One man's detail may be another man's brightness! The Reference were brand new and have taken a while to break in, making the initial comparison useless. They are more pinpoint than the Ultra, but that reduces the size of things. Curious if anyone else has had this observation with Reference? It may be that if I were to swap the Ultra's back in the system, I would now prefer the Reference...but it's not how I remember it!! :music:

 

[Gordon Gray]

Can you trade back?

Hopefully you can given the price of the wire.

Underscores the importance of an in home audition.

GG

 

[David Matz]

I found that Reference has darker backgrounds, better flow of music, and more detail. But these differences are fairly subtle. Whether it is worth the money for these improvements is a different matter.

 

[Beachbound]

I found that Reference has darker backgrounds, better flow of music, and more detail. But these differences are fairly subtle. Whether it is worth the money for these improvements is a different matter.

I suppose my main concern are the highs. Although they are still new with just a few hundred hours on them...they tend to be quite "metallic" sounding, or slightly "tinny" sounding. It does bring out more detail, but not necessarily with a tone that is remotely natural. I can only hope with more time this may work it's way out. If not...as Gordon had commented, perhaps I had better hope for as just a liberal trade "down" program!! Thanks, Beach.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Beach,

What is the recommended break in time?

What does the manufacturer say?

My experience with cable break in is that bass / mid bass become fuller and better defined spatially, mids more liquid, and highs darker /softer (like David said) with more texture and 3 dimensionality.

Good luck.

Gordon

PS: Is everything else sounding balanced and musical except for the top end?

 

[Beachbound]

Beach,

What is the recommended break in time?

What does the manufacturer say?

My experience with cable break in is that bass / mid bass become fuller and better defined spatially, mids more liquid, and highs darker /softer (like David said) with more texture and 3 dimensionality.

Good luck.

Gordon

PS: Is everything else sounding balanced and musical except for the top end?

Tranparent states from a couple of days...up to 300 hours. I am probably around 400 or so at this point. I am hopeful that things will work their way out...the bass is as close to perfect as I have ever imagined. Still just this "tizzyness" in the highs. The Summits I know are revealing...but not as unforgiving as I had read. The sound isn't fatiguing...just not quite right. I will remain confident that the next few weeks will bring out the best of my favorite speaker! I don't think my love affair with these Logans is going to be fading anytime soon!! Fortunately I do know that it is just the speaker cable...and not something else!

 

[Gordon Gray]

I had the legacy model for some five years and can't imagine the "X" being much different up top.

You can see my equipment / cabling in my system profile. Never heard any "tizziness" with several speaker cables I had in the system.

Seems odd given the price of that cable. Usually, based on my experience, a cable voiced to be a bit "toppy" will sound on the cool side of the equation, splashy, and be somewhat two dimensional. Example, cymbals tend to sound silvery versus brassy as they should sound. Ability to hear the initial attack and decay are also compromised.

GG

PS: Beach, given the amount of time you already have on the cable and the assumption that the sonic signature is not going to change, consider toe out and / or adjustment of the vertical azimuth of the panels. Maybe its a beaming problem that can be eliminated by trying either one or both of the options in very small amounts.

I've done this when I changed cabling and it seems to work. A good example is when I get a cable that has more bass weight. I'd move the speakers out into the room and it balanced the new signature with the rest of the speaker and room.

Just an idea.

 

[Beachbound]

I had the legacy model for some five years and can't imagine the "X" being much different up top.

You can see my equipment / cabling in my system profile. Never heard any "tizziness" with several speaker cables I had in the system.

Seems odd given the price of that cable. Usually, based on my experience, a cable voiced to be a bit "toppy" will sound on the cool side of the equation, splashy, and be somewhat two dimensional. Example, cymbals tend to sound silvery versus brassy as they should sound. Ability to hear the initial attack and decay are also compromised.

GG

PS: Beach, given the amount of time you already have on the cable and the assumption that the sonic signature is not going to change, consider toe out and / or adjustment of the vertical azimuth of the panels. Maybe its a beaming problem that can be eliminated by trying either one or both of the options in very small amounts.

I've done this when I changed cabling and it seems to work. A good example is when I get a cable that has more bass weight. I'd move the speakers out into the room and it balanced the new signature with the rest of the speaker and room.

Just an idea.

Yes, I did toe them out when, within a few days, it was quite apparent it would be necessary! I've just never quite had a break-in period like this. When I swapped out the Ultra's, the Reference initially weren't that different, then after about a week....hold on!!! The highs became like an AM transistor radio...and the bass took a holiday! That state lasted for about three days, then the bass started to come back....and come back very nicely! The highs have been a very patient process...but I have to say, they have improved since my original post a few days ago. They are starting to take on the "Transparent" sound that I am so familiar with. I have used many brands over the years, but I always come back to Transparent because I have found they work with most of the systems I have owned. My present system is quite resolving although not fatiguing...hence, I suppose it's just making me well aware of the changes a cable goes through. You can't help but get a little nervous though when you swap out a cable that you loved for another...and the improvement indeed is taking quite a while!! Thanks for the suggestions!!!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Beach,

My favorite personal experience was with a Classe Audio SS preamp.

600 hours. Ugh.

They really should burn those cables in for the price of admission.

GG