To power down or not power down? .....

[ford427]

That is my question. I run a Sunfire 600x2 into my Sequell II's and I only use the system in the weekends. Normally power up the Amps and speakers on Friday night and power down on Sunday night.
For long time component reliability, is the ok? or should I be leaving everything powered up continuiously?
Keen to know you opinions and what you are all doing.
Thanks in advance,
Nigel.

 

[Cherian]

You will be fine having SS amps on 24/7. The Sunfires run cool so don't worry about your electric bill either. Turning off and on your amp causes undue inrush current and stress on the amp components. Just make sure you have a good power conditioner to protect your equipment from surges or poor power quality. It is always a good idea to power down or unplugging your equipment if you leave the house days on end.

 

[sebrof2000]

I would say that even Sunfire probably doesn't really know the answer as to whether or not the system logevity will be improved by keeping on or turning off under your specific conditions. Power Up/Down does wear out components, but so does leaving them on. This case is 5 days unused, 2 days used. There's a break-even point, and I'd expect that this is approaching it. That's not to mention the wasted energy (I'm getting greener every day!).
Having said all that - I owned a Sunfire Stereo II (325wpc) and it didn't even have a power switch. Only way to turn it off was to unplug it.

 

[robertawillisjr]

I also find my self getting greener. BUT I do leave my equipment in what they call the "standby" or "trickle" on mode if I am not on travel.

 

[Webinattor]

I often wonder about this, too. I do a little of both. In terms of the benefit of keeping units on all the time, I can offer this.

I bought a brand new Pentium 3 computer about 10 years ago. An HP. I have left it on...not shut down for most of that 10 years. Its STILL alive and works. I think keeping it powered on has increased its life by leaps and bounds. Never had to replace the HD either.

I'd imagine leaving AV gear in standby would reap the same benefits over the long term.

 

[JonFo]

I’ve been powering down my Sunfires during the week for the past 15 years with no real problems.

I’ve always had the amps on switched, time-delayed plugs on a high-end power conditioner.

For the past 8 years, most of my gear gets powered down/up when I enter the theater, including the ML’s AC power. No problems due to this.

The only elements I leave on are the preamp (but in standby) and the speaker processors.

If I leave the house for > week, the entire power subsystem to the theater is shut-down.

No power related failures in 15 years, and I have a fair bit of gear (see my system link in my sig)

I’m getting Greener as well, and now am considering whether to power down the speaker processors (which are dedicated computers) as well.

 

[Bernard]

Turning off and on your amp causes undue inrush current and stress on the amp components.

I agree with this; leaving it on does not put as much stress on it. To take a simple example, when a lightbulb fails it always does so when you turn it on; it is the inrush current that kills it.

 

[JonFo]

Soft Start?

One of the things that indeed are hardest on amps and other gear is the inrush current upon power-up.

One way to address this is to have a circuit in the line that provides a ‘soft-start’ to the power supplies. Basically, it ramps up the voltage gradually until the power supplies in the connected system are saturated and then direct connects the mains to the load via a relay.

Some power amps have this feature built-in, but many do not (Sunfires don’t), which is one reason some of us stagger the turn on sequences to not overload the line or produce inrush sags that might affect other equipment.

The question to our resident power guru, Cherian, would be: Can one add a soft-start circuit before the amps and do so in a generalized fashion, or do they need to be uniquely tailored?

Any conditioners, or sequencers with soft-starts?

If not, then maybe a market opportunity for your employer

 

[Bernard]

One of the things that indeed are hardest on amps and other gear is the inrush current upon power-up.

One way to address this is to have a circuit in the line that provides a ‘soft-start’ to the power supplies.

You could just use a Variac, but I don't know how that would impact the sound.

 

[JonFo]

You could just use a Variac, but I don't know how that would impact the sound.

I have some Variac's, but other than providing a means of bring back on an old piece of gear (with totally drained caps, etc.), it is not practical for this.

BTW- a variac should have no perceptible negative impact on the sound, it's essentially a big, variable transformer. So at least you’d gain the benefits of transformer isolation and energy storage.

A soft start cycle is a couple of seconds at most and typically managed by a timer or a thermistor of some sort.

 

[risabet]

Consider that if you only leave your pre-amp on 24/7 it is on 8766 hours per year. If we assume an average energy consumption of 25 watts/hr at idle, which is probably very conservative, than one pre-amp left on uses 219150 watts of power per year. This is equivalent to .219150 MwH per year. If we assume that each MwH of electricity from coal (the most common fuel used to generate electricity) generates 1 ton of CO₂ emissions than each pre-amp left on generates .21915 tons (438.3 pounds) of CO₂ /year. This relates only to pre-amps, if one leaves on ones amp 24/7 than the energy wasted and CO₂ generated is greater. Not mentioned are the sulfates, nitrates and other pollution generated. Given the precarious state of the environment, turning your gear off when not used is not that big a sacrifice.

I turn my system off when not in use. Waiting thirty minutes to one hour for "good" sound isn't that onerous a task, considering. My $.02!

 

[DrJRapp]

I turn my system off when not in use. Waiting thirty minutes to one hour for "good" sound isn't that onerous a task, considering. My $.02!

I agree. While I'm no conservationist, I don't think wasting energy can ever be justified. Besides, my entire 2 channel system takes up 250 watts at idle (tube preamp and monoblock amps that are Class A to 140 wc) . That's ten times the CO2 of your example and probably a more realistic view of the overall impact. In my case leaving the system on when not listening would be highly irresponsible, regardlesss of the impact on equipment life.

 

[risabet]

I agree. While I'm no conservationist, I don't think wasting energy can ever be justified. Besides, my entire 2 channel system takes up 250 watts at idle (tube preamp and monoblock amps that are Class A to 140 wc) . That's ten times the CO2 of your example and probably a more realistic view of the overall impact. In my case leaving the system on when not listening would be highly irresponsible, regardlesss of the impact on equipment life.

You are right. I chose a very conservative scenario to show that the problem isn't just about sound. My system (tube pre and monoblocks) draws at least 250-300 watts at idle, not to mention tubes wear out and they aren't cheap in and of themselves.

 

[Statman]

How green can you go?

I leave my equipment on all day when I'm home and shut it off at night when done. I have to ask you "green" advocates a question. Who are some of the biggest polluters know to man? Fast food resturants! Ever notice the exhaust fans working double time to extract all of the smoke and hydrocarbons of cooking burgers and fries. I don't hear any of you being critical of them? The other pet peeve of mine is I hear people bitching about the environment and wasting electricity but drive by a high rise building, have you ever noticed how many offices still have their lights on?

 

[risabet]

I leave my equipment on all day when I'm home and shut it off at night when done. I have to ask you "green" advocates a question. Who are some of the biggest polluters know to man? Fast food restaurants! Ever notice the exhaust fans working double time to extract all of the smoke and hydrocarbons of cooking burgers and fries. I don't hear any of you being critical of them? The other pet peeve of mine is I hear people bitching about the environment and wasting electricity but drive by a high rise building, have you ever noticed how many offices still have their lights on?

How much of the "on time" is actually spent listening to music? If your like me then most of that on time is actually spent with music coming out of the speakers. But why leave it on at night when your asleep?

Conservation begins with us as individuals. The examples you point out are undoubtedly accurate, but outside of letter writing or voting with the wallet what would you suggest? Corporations and building owners need to address the issues you pointed out. My employer, LAUSD, has installed motion sensors in every classroom to save money on the electric bill, a side benefit is that the district has gotten more green. The hackneyed phrase "think globally, act locally" is apt.

 

[Statman]

How much of the "on time" is actually spent listening to music? If your like me then most of that on time is actually spent with music coming out of the speakers. But why leave it on at night when your asleep?

Conservation begins with us as individuals. The examples you point out are undoubtedly accurate, but outside of letter writing or voting with the wallet what would you suggest? Corporations and building owners need to address the issues you pointed out. My employer, LAUSD, has installed motion sensors in every classroom to save money on the electric bill, a side benefit is that the district has gotten more green. The hackneyed phrase "think globally, act locally" is apt.

Risabet,

Funny you mention the motion sensors. Went on vacation and came back to work and while walking into the restroom I noticed the instant on of the light before I could flip the switch as I walked in. Wow suddenly the city I work for got real efficient.

Yes the system is playing music when on.It's normally on XM radio when I'm busy puttering around the house.

 

[Speedskater]

DO NOT connect a "soft start" circuit to any Carver or Sunfire power amplifiers, most have a power supply that can be damaged by a soft start circuit.
I would not put a Variac on any large power amplifier. Big amplifiers draw lots of AC current for a very small portion of each power cycle and a Variac just makes the power supplies job tougher.

 

[Craig]

One of the benefits of tube amps is that there is no point in leaving them on when not in use for long periods and the warm up time is relatively short compared to SS gear.

 

[JonFo]

DO NOT connect a "soft start" circuit to any Carver or Sunfire power amplifiers, most have a power supply that can be damaged by a soft start circuit.
I would not put a Variac on any large power amplifier. Big amplifiers draw lots of AC current for a very small portion of each power cycle and a Variac just makes the power supplies job tougher.

Please explain why a ramped voltage into a Carver or Sunfire would damage them?

The Carver designed amps all feature large toroids to provide the energy reserves for their unique designs. The inrush into those toroids causes a lot of stress on the line (and anything attached to it).

A variac changes the voltage level, so as long as the Variac is of a sufficiently large rating i.e. >15 amps, then why would it effect?


Just trying to learn the why's.

 

[Speedskater]

DO NOT connect a "soft start" circuit to any Carver or Sunfire power amplifiers, most have a power supply that can be damaged by a soft start circuit.

The amplifiers that I am talking about are the ones that don't have a typical linear power supply, they have what is called a commutating power supply which turns on voltage steps of the special transformer in sync with power demands using a triac. With low line voltage the triacs stay on to long and blowup. In olden days outdoor PA systems powered from a generator would take out lots of Carver amps. The generators voltage regulators couldn't keep up with the audio.

I would not put a Variac on any large power amplifier. Big amplifiers draw lots of AC current for a very small portion of each power cycle and a Variac just makes the power supplies job tougher.

As I said "Big amplifiers draw lots of AC current for a very small portion of each power cycle" a 15Amp Variac acts like a series resistor in the primary AC circuit and limits current flow during that short time period. Any big amp and especially ones like Carvers and new ones with Switch Mode Power Supplies that is played real loud is happiest a very low source impedance AC supply.
For big amps I would run oversize AC power wires to the load center, I would not use a UPS or any filters or suppressors that add resistance to the AC line.
People often think that a 15Amp circuit breaker limits current to 15Amps. But that's the circuit breakers steady state (3 hours) current limit. A typical 15Amp circuit breaker will carry 90 or more Amps for as long as 1 second then taper to 15Amps over the next 3 hours.