The Banking Bailout Vote!

[twich54]

lack of discipline and motivation ON THE PART OF THE STUDENTS, and It goes much deeper than that.

How true Jerry and I too won't get off track but for a moment......and add to your statement above....."Parents and the respective home enviroment"

Married to a retired public school teacher of thirty years I feel fully confident in making this statement !

 

[DrJRapp]

How true Jerry and I too won't get off track but for a moment......and add to your statement above....."Parents and the respective home enviroment"

Married to a retired public school teacher of thirty years I feel fully confident in making this statement !

I'll back that statement 1000%, I avoided saying it outright to avoid a barrage of controversy. And, unfortunatly that's not a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it.

 

[risabet]

I'll back that statement 1000%, I avoided saying it outright to avoid a barrage of controversy. And, unfortunatly that's not a problem that can be solved by throwing money at it.

What controversy? I've been teaching at the middle school level for 21 years and the change I've seen in parents defending their kids as though the teacher has it out for them is incredible. The kids don't want to work, study, or be held responsible for the choices they make and their parents support them in this belief. As for the "achievement gap" it's actually an effort gap and nothing will change without a change in belief systems towards education.

 

[ScottGardner]

What controversy? I've been teaching at the middle school level for 21 years and the change I've seen in parents defending their kids as though the teacher has it out for them is incredible. The kids don't want to work, study, or be held responsible for the choices they make and their parents support them in this belief. As for the "achievement gap" it's actually an effort gap and nothing will change without a change in belief systems towards education.

I go to my kids' (now) one kid's PTA meetings regularly. I try to be a facilitator, in a sense, asking what can Josh (my son) do to bring his grades up but also ask the teacher for a little leeway, when needed, for making up work or dealing with unexpected absences (parents vacation for example). Because I take the stance that I'm on everyones side we end up walking away feeling like a team. In my experience this it the best way to deal with it. And most of the teachers have agreed with me. And Josh feels like he has a support system that can help him if/when problems arise.

(by the way my avatar is Josh)

 

[nsgarch]

Guantanamo anyone?

Someone called in to CSPAN this morning and suggested that all the CEO's, fund managers, commodity speculators and others who were found substantially complicit with, or engaged in practices leading to this situation be considered as having engaged in terrorist activity . . . . . and therefore be sent to the Guantanamo camp for interrogation accompanied by water-boarding and other forms of government approved information extraction techniques.

Anger forged into creativity -- I think we need more of that, and we'll get through all this without resorting to socialism. (Although it all makes me wonder if universal health care might be an easier sell after all this )

 

[Gordon Gray]

Neil,

For once, in my many viewings of your posts, I am in substantial agreement with your position.

I find the current situation unique in that it is so hyped, by the press, and depending on who you are listening to, it is either Armageddon, or the best thing that can happen.

The former position would say that we, this country, are so dependant on a debt driven / borrow society that we don't know or don't want to know what it is to pay for something up front.

The latter would say that it's finally time that we (myself included) really look at our individual and collective life styles and figure out if we, as a society and a world, can live on a "pay as you can basis" and not be held hostage to those that see and exploit financial gain based on our "carpe deam / materialistic" driven view of the world.

GG

 

[FISH_MAN]

Some borrowing is healthy and can help people. but their lies the gray area and and the devil lies in the details. we must show restraint and understand how much is borrowing is healthy.most all of this is basics that 50 years ago would be well understood.

 

[nsgarch]

Neil, For once, in my many viewings of your posts, I am in substantial agreement with your position. I find the current situation unique in that it is so hyped, by the press, and depending on who you are listening to, it is either Armageddon, or the best thing that can happen. GG

GG, unfortunately I can't take credit for that "bright idea." I was just passing it along (not that I disagree with it in spirit ;-) As for my position, well, right now it's horizontal (ask my doctor.) And perhaps, could we meet face to face, we'd find more to agree over

Second, if you were a young person by or before 1960, you would remember that people borrowed money (assumed debt) and they also had savings accounts. And paid for their consumer purchases with cash or check. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are (rightly) attacking post-60's consumer credit (cards) which was and is (IMO) the psychological root of this mess. We shouldn't blame materialism as if it were some Satanic personality defect -- rather blame the ad-men, marketers and BANKS, that fostered in us an unconscious desire for things we really didn't need and an easy way to obtain them (including Digital Disks ?!) OK, ok . . . . . . but anyway, my point is that a person would have to be at least 60 y.o. just to remember a time before there were credit cards.

I know that "MAIN STREET IS HURTING." Washington has been telling us that, ad nauseum, for over a week now (like we on Main St. wouldn't know it, all by ourselves?) Has anybody out there questioned the motive behind their mantra?

Yet I was encouraged today (and my own predictions somewhat vindicated, I must admit) to see the up-tick in the stock market. Why? Well, because it means to me that "main street" (BTW, for those reading this on Mars, that's all of America ;-) is starting to trust the market! -- annnd, despite the fact we can't borrow a dime right now, it appears Americans (dumb as we are, right?) are beginning to realize this "financial crises" will correct itself in a month or less, and NOT take us into the next Ice Age as so many in Congress and the White House would scare us into believing. I also found it IMMENSELY amusing that most Congress men and women from both parties, who voted against the Bill, are up for re-election this November! Meaning they know what we think here on Main St., and would ignore us at their own peril! (Don't take my word, that's what Google is for!)

I must confess, I'm an evolutionist. After all, didn't God 'intelligently design' everything, including Darwin's Theory? So I believe that on Main St. and on Wall St., in the financial world as in the natural world, the fittest will survive!

I urge you to contact your representatives, whether or not they're up for re-election. And I'll close now, with my most humble apologies to Cheech, Chong, and Gordon, (if I offended him,) by saying, "We don't need no stinkin' bailouts!"

.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I wish the new would just give it a rest for a little bit! they only need to give us the important stuff the rest just makes things worse I think most of the new reporters are nothing more than a bunch of jerks.

 

[ScottGardner]

700 Billion or 55 Trillion?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/30/mag...hort.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008093012

 

[MiTT]

700 Billion or 55 Trillion?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/30/mag...hort.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2008093012

Yep, I've been wondering about exactly this issue ever since I first read about CDS's in some of Dreamers earlier posts. He was correct too about making a room full of accountants and financial advisors squirm. I brought them up to a room full of money guys at a friends house recently and half of them didn't even want to talk about them and the other half defended them saying that "the public simply couldn't comprehend" the convoluted aspects of them. I'll tell you what, I'm nervous as hell about them.

It's certainly not drastic for me yet but here's a little "event" that happened to Sandy and I on Monday. Last week before we went on a little trip to Santa Fe I was looking at my accounts on line. We've had a Home Equity Line of Credit on the house for a number of years that we tap into when we want to make an improvement. We have a small balance on it, but certainly nothing extreme. I've been making double payments on it for 6 months or so ever since we used it to help pay for some landscaping. Last Wednesday we had a little over $75K available on this line of credit. Monday afternoon Sandy calls me at work saying that our LOC's available balance was 0 - that's right, ZERO. A frantic call to the bank (Chase) because I'm thinking some sort of credit fraud or identity theft or something, but NO. Chase believes that the value of our home has fallen so much that they simply have chosen to eliminate our available credit! It does not matter that we have never missed a payment nor had a late payment. It does not matter that we make the equivalent of 2 extra payments every year dedicated exclusively to paying down our principal. It does not matter that Chase does not hold our original mortgage, or that said mortgage is nearly 30% paid off after only 3 years. It does not matter that home values in the neighboorhood have actually continued to hold their value and that sales continue to take place here. It does not matter that they did not perform an actual appraisal, nor that the tax evaluation of the property actually has increased over $100K since we moved in and made improvements.

Is it money out of my pocket, not directly, and it certainly isn't as bad as what many people, including some here, are enduring, but it pi$$ed me off none the less to think that there is nothing I have done wrong, yet the bank has deemed me no longer worth of this LOC.

 

[eknuds01]

Yep, I've been wondering about exactly this issue ever since I first read about CDS's in some of Dreamers earlier posts. He was correct too about making a room full of accountants and financial advisors squirm. I brought them up to a room full of money guys at a friends house recently and half of them didn't even want to talk about them and the other half defended them saying that "the public simply couldn't comprehend" the convoluted aspects of them. I'll tell you what, I'm nervous as hell about them.

It's certainly not drastic for me yet but here's a little "event" that happened to Sandy and I on Monday. Last week before we went on a little trip to Santa Fe I was looking at my accounts on line. We've had a Home Equity Line of Credit on the house for a number of years that we tap into when we want to make an improvement. We have a small balance on it, but certainly nothing extreme. I've been making double payments on it for 6 months or so ever since we used it to help pay for some landscaping. Last Wednesday we had a little over $75K available on this line of credit. Monday afternoon Sandy calls me at work saying that our LOC's available balance was 0 - that's right, ZERO. A frantic call to the bank (Chase) because I'm thinking some sort of credit fraud or identity theft or something, but NO. Chase believes that the value of our home has fallen so much that they simply have chosen to eliminate our available credit! It does not matter that we have never missed a payment nor had a late payment. It does not matter that we make the equivalent of 2 extra payments every year dedicated exclusively to paying down our principal. It does not matter that Chase does not hold our original mortgage, or that said mortgage is nearly 30% paid off after only 3 years. It does not matter that home values in the neighboorhood have actually continued to hold their value and that sales continue to take place here. It does not matter that they did not perform an actual appraisal, nor that the tax evaluation of the property actually has increased over $100K since we moved in and made improvements.

Is it money out of my pocket, not directly, and it certainly isn't as bad as what many people, including some here, are enduring, but it pi$$ed me off none the less to think that there is nothing I have done wrong, yet the bank has deemed me no longer worth of this LOC.

Tim -

That's horrible. However, the banks screw with us all of the time. 3-4 years ago (well before the credit crunch) the rate of my mastercard went up from 13.4% to like 25%. I never use the card, and never missed a payment. I was in grad school at the time. It turns out that I had eye surgery and a bill was misplaced and one of the doctors didn't get paid. This ended up my credit report (collection account). I called the eye doctor and they told me everything was paid. I called the collection agency and they said it was one of the anesthesiologists - he was brought in for my surgery - and didn't work directly for the eye doctor's office.

So I called the bank and asked why my rate doubled overnight. They claimed that my credit score dropped too much and that mandated a 100% rate hike.

You'd think someone would have had the decency to pick up the phone and call. One quick call to tell me that the doctor didn't receive payment (which was only $300) could have cleared this up.

banks suck.

 

[FISH_MAN]

it's not about decency credit lenders are opportunistic predators that lay in wait.when they get the chance they stick their big 8====D you know where!

 

[tsmooth]

How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis: Kevin Hassett -

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0

 

[DrJRapp]

Yep, I've been wondering about exactly this issue ever since I first read about CDS's in some of Dreamers earlier posts. He was correct too about making a room full of accountants and financial advisors squirm. I brought them up to a room full of money guys at a friends house recently and half of them didn't even want to talk about them and the other half defended them saying that "the public simply couldn't comprehend" the convoluted aspects of them. I'll tell you what, I'm nervous as hell about them.

It's certainly not drastic for me yet but here's a little "event" that happened to Sandy and I on Monday. Last week before we went on a little trip to Santa Fe I was looking at my accounts on line. We've had a Home Equity Line of Credit on the house for a number of years that we tap into when we want to make an improvement. We have a small balance on it, but certainly nothing extreme. I've been making double payments on it for 6 months or so ever since we used it to help pay for some landscaping. Last Wednesday we had a little over $75K available on this line of credit. Monday afternoon Sandy calls me at work saying that our LOC's available balance was 0 - that's right, ZERO. A frantic call to the bank (Chase) because I'm thinking some sort of credit fraud or identity theft or something, but NO. Chase believes that the value of our home has fallen so much that they simply have chosen to eliminate our available credit! It does not matter that we have never missed a payment nor had a late payment. It does not matter that we make the equivalent of 2 extra payments every year dedicated exclusively to paying down our principal. It does not matter that Chase does not hold our original mortgage, or that said mortgage is nearly 30% paid off after only 3 years. It does not matter that home values in the neighboorhood have actually continued to hold their value and that sales continue to take place here. It does not matter that they did not perform an actual appraisal, nor that the tax evaluation of the property actually has increased over $100K since we moved in and made improvements.

Is it money out of my pocket, not directly, and it certainly isn't as bad as what many people, including some here, are enduring, but it pi$$ed me off none the less to think that there is nothing I have done wrong, yet the bank has deemed me no longer worth of this LOC.

I hear your pain.....Chase did exactly the same thing to me last week. They shut off the remaining $110K in my line. There is a provision in the loan documents that allows them to do so when market conditions change in a perscribed manner. Their letter states their appraisal is based on "widly accepted appraisal criterion, however, when you speak to them they can't tell you anything about those appraisal criteria. It appears to be a number they just pulled out of their ass. By the way, homes in my area are down only 7% since I took out that loan, yet their determination is that they are down 50%.

Fortunatly, there is a way to change their mind, but, unfortunatly for most it is a costly way. I'm fighting it because the number that they chose to assign to my home is soooo fu-fu it's rediculous. Unfortunatly, I had to hire an appraiser to prove to them that my home is worth what it is not what they claim. Fortunatly, because of the business I am in, building high end homes, I know everyone, so that that appraiser didn't cost me too much. However, most people are in my position to do so quite as easily and economically.