System #361 (CLX, Descent i)

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RUR,

"My advice is to try it both ways. IME, placing a tube trap directly behind the speaker killed far too much ambience. I settled on large dia. tube traps in the front (and rear) corners for bass absorption, plus a 2x4x6" "flat" trap on the front wall near each corner to absorb 100Hz-20kHz of the backwave. I can post a photo, if you like."

I'd love to see a photo or two if you can please post them!

I am torn between the ASC tube traps and Real Traps products.

To add to the issue are two products made by GIK, those being the Scopus Trap and the Screen Panel Trap. I am going to start a post under room acoustics on those two products. In the mean time, please post pictures when you get a chance.

One question regarding your 16" traps in the corners . . . . do you think a 4 foot tall 16" trap is sufficient, or do you need to go as far up to the ceiling as possible?

When trying to decide which trap to get for behind the Summits, Michael at ASC suggested either 11" or 13". My assumption is that I need to cover the entire panel, which would requite a 5 foot, 13" trap, which is a special order at $775.00 each. The 4 foot model is "only" 542.00. That extra foot is a killer on the price!

TFA

 

[RUR]

RUR,

I'd love to see a photo or two if you can please post them!

Here you go:

16" x 4' ASC in the corner with the poly diffusor facing into the corner - no diffusion. 6" RealTraps Guildford trap next to that, hanging on the bookcase.

One question regarding your 16" traps in the corners . . . . do you think a 4 foot tall 16" trap is sufficient, or do you need to go as far up to the ceiling as possible?

As you can see, in my room with my setup, I've found 4' to be sufficient. I borrowed a pair of 16" X 3', placed them atop mine and I could neither hear a difference, nor measure any noticable improvement in bass decay. Having said this, my bass decay measures awful darned good and those 6" Guildfords next to the ASC traps probably help out with that.

When trying to decide which trap to get for behind the Summits, Michael at ASC suggested either 11" or 13". My assumption is that I need to cover the entire panel, which would requite a 5 foot, 13" trap, which is a special order at $775.00 each. The 4 foot model is "only" 542.00. That extra foot is a killer on the price!

Personally, I wouldn't buy the tube traps for directly behind the speakers until you've experimented to see if that configuration is what you prefer. You could temporarily buy a couple of bales of pink fluffy (return them unopened when done) and stack those directly behind the speakers, just to see if you like what it does to ambience. Or, tape a couple of pillows to the back of the stator - they'll provide plenty of absorption to evaluate the effect. Once you've tried that, put the bales of fluffy against the front wall in and around where the rear of the panel is "aimed". You may prefer this latter approach, as I did. Or not! If you do decide to trap immediately behind the speaker, I'd buy a trap which is as tall as the stator, but no taller.

Hope that helps!

Ken

 

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Hope that helps!

Ken


Thanks for the picture and detailed explanation!

I'll do a little more research but have been putting on paper some possible configurations, and combinations of products, and of course adding up the cost! Once I have a few possible set ups, I'm going to call Ethan at Real traps and see what he thinks. I started a thread in the Acoustic and ML Placement section regarding the GIK Panel Trap. I may consider a couple of those , which I could move about the room to experiment with. It maybe easier than the bales of fluffy stuff that would probably mirror a tube trap nicely.

Question on the Guilford's from Real Traps that you have. Is the build exactly like their "regular" traps , but without the metal "scafolding" as some one called in in a review? Does the wood frame show through the fabric?

I am thinking on both the side walls and the front of stacking a 2X4 Real Traps Mini HF on top of a 2x2 Mini HF. My thinking is the "regular" version might stack better than the Guilford because of the steel sides. I am trying not to attach to the wall as I may be moving the system eventually to another room.

Eventually I am also adding into the plan two or three of the Real Trap Diffusor modules in the back of the room and those only come in the regual version with the metal. So going with the regular version might offer two benefits . . . better stackability and better match with the Real Trap Mini HF traps that would go in the front, and at the first and second reflection points on both sides. Add 4 each 4' ASC tube traps in each corner and I think I might have a plan that will work. Could take three of four purchases, but I think it would be worth the wait.

THANK YOU for all of your suggestions!!

TFA

 

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VERY NICE SYSTEM!!!!

I don't think it was mentioned anywhere in the thread . . . .

Who is the manufacturer of your component stand and where did you purchase them?
Do they make a bottom section so you could put a component nearer to the the floor?

I currently have a Salamander Synergy unit, which I do really like the looks and functionality of, but I may be moving the system to another room, and may want to have the components out in the open and spread more around the room, in which case, the units you are using would work nicely.

Thanks!

TFA

 

[RUR]

Question on the Guilford's from Real Traps that you have. Is the build exactly like their "regular" traps , but without the metal "scafolding" as some one called in in a review? Does the wood frame show through the fabric?

Near as I can tell by feeling the sides, they're framed with wood with openings in all four sides to permit absorption of incident sound - much like the cutouts in the metal-framed traps. You can see the wooden frame from the front if the light is just right, but not on the sides i.e. the fabric is wrapped around the sides, with the back open.

I am thinking on both the side walls and the front of stacking a 2X4 Real Traps Mini HF on top of a 2x2 Mini HF. My thinking is the "regular" version might stack better than the Guilford because of the steel sides. I am trying not to attach to the wall as I may be moving the system eventually to another room.

IME, you don't want or need 6' high absorbers on the side walls. 4' centered @ ear height should be fine and you can always add absorption (additional 2X2 minis) later, if you feel it's necessary.

Eventually I am also adding into the plan two or three of the Real Trap Diffusor modules in the back of the room and those only come in the regual version with the metal. So going with the regular version might offer two benefits . . . better stackability and better match with the Real Trap Mini HF traps that would go in the front, and at the first and second reflection points on both sides. Add 4 each 4' ASC tube traps in each corner and I think I might have a plan that will work. Could take three of four purchases, but I think it would be worth the wait.

1) Don't assume that you need to absorb the 1st reflection points. ML's are dipoles and throw a big null to the sides. In my room, when I used ETC to find problematic reflections, the 1st reflection points were not a problem and I use no absorption there. The second reflection points (right speaker off off left wall and vice versa) were problematic, and I do use absorption there.
2) Be careful about using generic diffusion. I have Ethan's diffusors on the back wall, but I'm not convinced they're doing what they should in my room and I'm talking to RPG about what they think is ideal for my room, based on seating and backwall locations. This is very much terra incognita for me and I'm learning as I go....

Again, hope this helps!

 

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Ken,

Once again THANK YOU for all the input. I get the "learning as I go" part. That is why I am asking so many questions, as room acoustics don't some cheap, especially when you're just experimenting on your own. Seeing I may move the system, I want to purchase pieces that will work in just about any room. Those 4' high, 16" round Tube Traps for the corners could be a start, but I also think I need something behind the Summits. Either place I have the systemwill put the panels about 5' from the wall. On the other hand, do you think that they could be closer to the wall, maybe panels at 4' from the wall, IF you have the HF traps behind the panel? I'm thinking if you are absorbing the back wave anyway, they could be a tad closer to the wall. What is your experience with distance from the front wall?

I am wondering about Real Traps Diffusors too. I know there are near and far versions, but compared to say GIK Diffusors, and others, there is a lot more base absorption going on with Etahn's version. Most seem to be made of wood, which is far more reflective.

TFA

 

[RUR]

Ken,

Once again THANK YOU for all the input. I get the "learning as I go" part. That is why I am asking so many questions, as room acoustics don't some cheap, especially when you're just experimenting on your own. Seeing I may move the system, I want to purchase pieces that will work in just about any room. Those 4' high, 16" round Tube Traps for the corners could be a start, but I also think I need something behind the Summits. Either place I have the systemwill put the panels about 5' from the wall. On the other hand, do you think that they could be closer to the wall, maybe panels at 4' from the wall, IF you have the HF traps behind the panel? I'm thinking if you are absorbing the back wave anyway, they could be a tad closer to the wall. What is your experience with distance from the front wall?

I understand the reasoning and it's worth experimenting, but I haven't played with different front wall distances in a long while. FWIW, mine are 5' from the front wall.

I am wondering about Real Traps Diffusors too. I know there are near and far versions, but compared to say GIK Diffusors, and others, there is a lot more base absorption going on with Etahn's version. Most seem to be made of wood, which is far more reflective.

Based on the construction, I'd be surprised if there was much bass absorption from anyone's QRD diffusors, including Ethan's - there's simply not enough depth of absorptive material built-in. My concern with multiple, identical small N QRD diffusors is with lobing, hence my queries to RPG. Short of reading D'Antonio's authoritative book on the subject, here's an excellent primer that's helped me to understand basic principles: http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrd.htm.

 

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Ken,

That is one heck of a "primer"!

I book marked and and will check it out later.
The GIK Diffusors look interesting and are reasonably priced.
I think I will start with behind the Summits and then move to the corners for starters.
I agree with you that first reflection points may not be an issue and actually where my Summit's are right now, they are on the long wall, and the closest wall on the left is probably 7 feet and on the other side they open up to the foyer, so side reflection is not my problem. On the other hand, my head is probably 2 to 3 feet from the back wall so I have lots of front to back issues going on with no absoption in front or back! 15 feet from front wall to back wall total - add 5 feet for the panels to the wall and you see I am in near field mode!

TFA