Summits Take a Hike

[DrJRapp]

It's new years eve and my wife isn't home from work till 9 so I had the opportunity to do some serious listening at high SPL without dealing with WAF. Two of the discs of the many I spun had lots of drum music, specifically kettle drums. One of the discs is a proprietary HDCD by Shanling that was provided to me when I got my CDT100 years ago. The other was Blue Man Group, The Complex. For anyone not already familiar with Blue Man Group I suggest you become so...and make it a new years resolution!

Anyway...back to the point...when I finished up I noticed that the Summits had each moved considerably off their set up marks...like six to eight inches. I've had them walk a tiny bit before over time, that's why I keep the set up position marked off on the floor..but nothing like this. OBTW, I'm using the blunt end of the feet, not the spikes.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Spike 'em and put 'em on cups or coins!

 

[User211]

Hm - has Chris (C.A.P) been round there by any chance? Or did you go to Chris's school of ML placement and pass the advanced degree?

 

[FISH_MAN]

good lord man either your floor is really waxed or you where really jamming.
how f*cking loud where they be careful to keep your hearing

 

[User211]

Don't forget the Summit has a front AND a downward facing woofer - guess they just started to "hop"

 

[C.A.P]

Hm - has Chris (C.A.P) been round there by any chance? Or did you go to Chris's school of ML placement and pass the advanced degree?

Blue tape bandit strikes again. :ROFL:
Spike them with cones with rubber bottoms. Or you can go like ME and spike the wood!

 

[DrJRapp]

good lord man either your floor is really waxed or you where really jamming.
how f*cking loud where they be careful to keep your hearing

The floor isn't waxed at all, just finished with aluminum oxide rienforced polyurethane. As far as loud goes..Let's say it was fun and leave it at that ...ok

 

[sleepysurf]

Just think how great they would have sounded if bolted to the floor! That's one tweak I don't believe we've considered (yet).

 

[Len44]

Just think how great they would have sounded if bolted to the floor! That's one tweak I don't believe we've considered (yet).

Bolted to the Floor? OOOOOHH, YEAH!!! Talk about the BIG Leagues! :bowdown:

That sounds like.....wait -- gotta go do 'sumthin 'fore the wife gets back home...

 

[amey01]

For more reason than one, they really should be on carpet! Maybe consider a rug that covers at least the area between your speakes and your listening position.

 

[User211]

Good point Adam.

And by the same token, I shall be carpeting my ceiling

Seriosuly though, barewood floors make for a very "echo"y reflective sound. Get a good thick big rug to counteract as a minimum.

 

[SteveH]

I've noticed considrable creep with my Prodigys - but over a more extended period of time: the floor positions are not marked, so it was only when I finally noticed, visually, that there was something out of line that I started to investigate.

My speakers are spiked and sit on a hard, stone floor... I never noticed creep with any other speaker I've owned. Does it say something about the structural integrity or damping of the speaker? My question is most likely the wrong one to ask since I have no engineering or physics background...

It just suggests to me that vibrations sufficient to move speakers like this must imply "cabinet / panel" vibration - which in turn suggests colouring (UK spelling) of the sound...

Any views from this perspective?

 

[Craig]

A wood floor may not be as solid a foundation compared to a concrete or tile floor. I'll bet you can feel the floor vibrate if you stand next to the Summits while they're playing. I recently experienced this at a friends house who had Avantgarde Duo speakers sitting on a bare wooden floor in a wood frame construction house. I didn't notice them walking away but definitely felt the floor vibrating.

A heavy throw rug underneath your speakers would keep them from moving and may help dampen the vibrating floor.

 

[DrJRapp]

A heavy throw rug underneath your speakers would keep them from moving and may help dampen the vibrating floor.

The floor doesn't vibrate. The flooring material is engineered wood that is glued down to the concrete benieth. The floor is very solid and reflects sound because of it's hard surface, but doesn't resonate.

I believe the movement came from the lower woofer pushing so much air that the speaker effectively got lighter...then the forward facing woofer's air output was easily able to push the whole speaker back.

Does anyone know which woofer is controlled by the lower frequency (25hz) knob?

 

[Craig]

Each woofer has its own 200 watt amplifier but I always thought the freq controls apply to both woofers as they would in a subwoofer.

 

[amey01]

And by the same token, I shall be carpeting my ceiling

If your speakers are "sitting" on your ceiling (or your celing resting on your speakers I guess) then I probably would too.

 

[wrat]

Damn....I cant even imagine

 

[twich54]

I believe the movement came from the lower woofer pushing so much air that the speaker effectively got lighter...then the forward facing woofer's air output was easily able to push the whole speaker back.

Jerry, you've spent to much time looking at the Maxell poster !

levitating Summitt's...now that's a trick !, LOL !

 

[JonFo]

Just think how great they would have sounded if bolted to the floor! That's one tweak I don't believe we've considered (yet).

Well, yes I’ve definitely though about that for my setup. Just never bought the long, threaded bolts I’d need. I’ve not moved the Monoliths in years (pretty well dialed in by now). So maybe I should do this tweak next :devil:

I've noticed considrable creep with my Prodigys - but over a more extended period of time: the floor positions are not marked, so it was only when I finally noticed, visually, that there was something out of line that I started to investigate.

My speakers are spiked and sit on a hard, stone floor... I never noticed creep with any other speaker I've owned. Does it say something about the structural integrity or damping of the speaker? My question is most likely the wrong one to ask since I have no engineering or physics background...

It just suggests to me that vibrations sufficient to move speakers like this must imply "cabinet / panel" vibration - which in turn suggests colouring (UK spelling) of the sound...

Any views from this perspective?

First, solid spikes onto a solid floor just mean that you have a very small contact point between floor and speaker, which makes it easier for it to move around.

I’d recommend putting down a rubber matt that is sufficiently large to have all spikes for a given speaker poke into it (but not through it). If the Matt is sufficiently ‘grippy’ WRT the floor, then than should fix the issue.
If your speakers are moving, then yes, there is definitely additional coloration happening as the structure itself is probably emanating its own vibrations (ML cabinets are not exactly world-class resonant free, they’re good, but not that good).

More of concern is the fact that all that shaking of the woofer box is also vibrating the panel, inducing ‘errors’ / distortion on the sound emanated by them.

So yes, I’d try and ensure the speakers were as stable and ‘anchored’ as possible.

Tricks to achieving this (beyond bolting to the floor), are to mass load the cabinets with weight.
Wrapping some lead weights (from weight training devices, or scuba diving belt weights) in a nice cloth and making it look ‘acceptable’ is one way to put a large mass on the cabinet and weight it down and kill some resonances as well.

I do this on the rear Sequels, as they were a bit tippy as well without the extra weight.

 

[Gordon Gray]

BDR wide pits

Try the BDR pucks. Wood floor friendly. Designed for spike use and very effective at isolating the speaker from the floor. I use the "Mk 3 wide pits" model. Pricey but well worth it IMHO.

GG

PS: I respectfully disagree with the "bolt through the floor" idea. This will still transmit vibrations through the floor and not isolate the speaker from the floor. Same with those who recommend you put your spikes on a penny or those little brass cups with the small indent in the center.