Spires shipping out Monday!

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tonepub

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Just talked to Devin Zell at ML today and he's shipping me a pair of
Spires on Monday, hopefully they will be here by next weekend.

Very curious to see how these compare to the Vantage and Summit.
I have a good friend a few miles away who has agreed to bring his
Vantages over, so we can A-B all three of them with everything else
being the same.

I'll keep you posted!
 
Im curious as I spent a long day today with the Summits and was amazed to say the least. I hope that trickle down effect is big !
 
The thing I'm the most curious about is that because I have a descent, how will the combination of spire and descent at about 12k stack up to a pair of summits alone at 11....

Can't wait to find out.

Also need to find out if the Spire has the same crossover as the Summit, just one less woofer, or if they have done something to tweak the crossover with CLX technology...

I'll let you know as soon as I have something to report.
 
Yes but they crossover at different frequencies,
The Summits crossover at 270hz
The Spires crossover at 320hz

This, I don't understand - and I find it more than a little concerning.

The crossover is necessary because the panel can't go down deep into the bass. That is, the crossover frequency (SHOULD?) be defined by the capabilities of the panel - nothing else.

So if the Spire uses the same panel as the Summit, then the crossover frequency should technically be the same. Right, or am I missing something?

What concerns me: Is ML intentionally limiting the potential performance by making the crossover higher than it needs to be?

Very worrying!
 
Just talked to Devin Zell at ML today and he's shipping me a pair of
Spires on Monday, hopefully they will be here by next weekend.

Very curious to see how these compare to the Vantage and Summit.
I have a good friend a few miles away who has agreed to bring his
Vantages over, so we can A-B all three of them with everything else
being the same.

I'll keep you posted!

Jeff,

Have you got these setup yet? I hope the ones they ship you are broken in.
 
not yet, but keeping my eyes peeled!

The new issue should be done by this weekend, so if they get
here next week, it will be perfect timing...
 
This, I don't understand - and I find it more than a little concerning.

The crossover is necessary because the panel can't go down deep into the bass. That is, the crossover frequency (SHOULD?) be defined by the capabilities of the panel - nothing else.

So if the Spire uses the same panel as the Summit, then the crossover frequency should technically be the same. Right, or am I missing something?

What concerns me: Is ML intentionally limiting the potential performance by making the crossover higher than it needs to be?

Very worrying!

Amey, take a chill-pill my friend :meditate:

There are actually very good reasons why they are different. Remember, a crossover is a component of an overall system, and is part of the tuning process to ensure the most balanced presentation is delivered.

The crossover is not only limiting the frequencies to the panel, it's also managing the woofer. If the Spire woofer can play cleaner up higher than the Summit drivers, then going a bit higher on the crossover is a good thing.
Note than even with my very large Monolith panels, I still crossover at 315Hz to the woofer, as that delivers the best balance of mid-bass to panel transition while meeting my SPL goals.

The Spire’s single woofer is probably more adept at covering the mid-bass than the more massive units in the Summit, which seem more designed to go low.
A Spire should really be matched with a good sub and spared having to handle anything under 60hz. Then the higher crossover to the panel will allow the woofer to handle mid-bass much more cleanly.
My bet is a pair of spires + Depth is better than a pair of Summits alone. Partly because they will have better mid-bass performance.

Bottom line, the crossover point is as much a function of the woofers abilities as it is the panels. And it is part of the speaker voicing and balance tuning.

PS- note, none of the panels do well below 400hz. They all suffer from roll-off and from significant power compression. I.e. even if they hit 300Hz cleanly at 90dB, they will be 3 to 6dB down at 300 when doing 102dB. Never mind that any and all dipoles have rear-wave cancellation to deal with at around that frequency, so another reason not to get to wrapped up over them moving the x-over point a bit higher.
 
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Well put John, by someone with actual technical knowledge of how ML speakers work. Never ceases to amaze me how people with no technical credentials criticize ML for the choices it makes in designing their speakers. Might actually listen to one before you determine it likely won't sound good because of the engineering decisions made.:rolleyes:
 
To the best of my knowledge, the Spire is going to sell for $8495...

I agree with John, I have to guess that the ML people know what they are doing!

However I am on the same wavelenth, thinking there might be a few extra molecules of something using the Spire with a Descent over a pair of Summits. That's the great thing about having both here to do the review!

I'm sure too, it will all depend on room and SPL levels desired as to what you choose for your system. Right now, the Summits and the Descent really rock out in my room, so I am very curious to see what this combination will come up with. Should be here any day!
 
To the best of my knowledge, the Spire is going to sell for $8495...

I agree with John, I have to guess that the ML people know what they are doing!

However I am on the same wavelenth, thinking there might be a few extra molecules of something using the Spire with a Descent over a pair of Summits. That's the great thing about having both here to do the review!

I'm sure too, it will all depend on room and SPL levels desired as to what you choose for your system. Right now, the Summits and the Descent really rock out in my room, so I am very curious to see what this combination will come up with. Should be here any day!

Jeff,

I hope you will come at it from the other side also and test how a Vantage with a Descent compares with the Spire.

From an economic sense and from a consumer psychology perspective, I think the Spire is either a bone headed decision or a delibirate attempt to kill the Summit. Most consumers (except for a few nuts!;)) do not purchase the most expensive thing out there. They look at the choices and go with something that is almost the best, but doesn't cost the big bucks of the best in the lineup. Some companies deliberatily introduce an expensive loss leader product with all of the bells and whistles to deliberately drive the volume of sales to the "almost" best product at a lower price. In the ML old product line up, the 3 choices were clear. Now with the Spire, things have been muddied up. At best, consumers will be confused. At worst, the consumers will bypass the Summit and go with the Spire (or the Spire will fail if it's too close to the Vantage).
 
Summits versus Descent i and X

Jeff,

In the ML old product line up, the 3 choices were clear. Now with the Spire, things have been muddied up. At best, consumers will be confused. At worst, the consumers will bypass the Summit and go with the Spire (or the Spire will fail if it's too close to the Vantage).

I agree that it was very clear before the Spire. Now it's a bit confusing for the end consumer. Didn't I hear of a Super Summit in the works? That would make the line up more clear . . . . Vista -Vantage-Spire-Super Summit-CLX. Sound right?

I have been down the path of the Vantages and a Descent i versus the Summits. I can tell you from my experience, not to mention the many members who "suggested" I go the Summit route, that I'd go with the Summits alone any day! Integrating a sub into any speaker is a tricky, and somewhat frustrating thing to do. When you consider the cost of the cables, the sub itself, plus placement issues, etc, it's not worth it. For two channel at least, IMHO. Maybe for HT it might even be a necessity.

I doubt the Spire and a sub will best a stand alone Summit. I just can't get that sub "integration" thing out of my head! :eek:

Joe
 
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