Spire, Summit Saga

[Necrosuit]

Hey guys, I will be able to purchase a pair of used Spires or Summits (not Summit x) very shortly. I have read all the threads on the Spire VS Summit etc, but am not really interested in the battle between the two speakers but more interested in you guys experiences with these two, pro's, con's and personal experiences, likes & dislikes. Just for a reference the first room these will go in will be 10wx15L, which will eventually turn into 10x19 and then a year or two will move to a bigger room in the house. You can see the gear I'm currently running on my signature line. Part of the reasoning for stepping up from my Vantage's is a bigger panel. All input will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Gordon Gray]

One of the going theories, as recently posted by Jeff, is that room size will be the main factor. This one makes sense to me.

Broad generalization. Smaller rooms / Spires, larger room / Summit.

Main reason is the amount of bass inherent to each speaker as well as the flexibility of the crossover adjustments.

Best fit will depend on room nodes and what the crossover adjustment can and cannot resolve.

GG

 

[twich54]

Broad generalization. Smaller rooms / Spires, larger room / Summit.

Do a search, this has been discussed numerous times............ Gordon I agree....mostly..... but will add that Spires in conjuction with and outbboard, properly EQ'd sub will easily equal or best Summitts alone. So, if the room is larger (or soon to be) than this type of flexability makes sense and of course $$ enters into the equation as well.

 

[Necrosuit]

Thanks guys. Due to the room size Im pretty sure I will run with Spires for now, unless I find a real good deal on Summits. Another question for you, have you guys heard the actual difference in the sound stage/image from vantage to spire with the bigger panel? Or is that all based on the room size as well?

 

[Gordon Gray]

The bigger panel will, by nature, provide more musical information.

This will equate to a larger soundstage, more dimensionality, presence, dynamics, and more emotional impact.

Also, and I'm sure you know this, the Spires have their own powered woofer thereby causing less strain on your amplifier, which will provide more headroom, and better sound, from your amp.

Dave, assuming proper setup, I agree with your comments about the sub or subs but personally, I don't want any more flippin boxes, cables, etc. in my listening room. From my perspective, the Summits do just fine.

 

[twich54]

have you guys heard the actual difference in the sound stage/image from vantage to spire with the bigger panel? Or is that all based on the room size as well?

As Gordon said...panel size, but I suspect the larger bass driver in conjunction with the newer, reworked crossover design has an influence as well.

FWIW, I moved from Vantage to Spires and the single biggest thing I noticed was the soundstage improvement, both side to side and front to back, which in smaller group recordings (jazz, chamber music, folk, blues, etc) shows up in better definition.

 

[David Matz]

Another question for you, have you guys heard the actual difference in the sound stage/image from vantage to spire with the bigger panel? Or is that all based on the room size as well?

Yes, if your room is large enough, this difference is substantial. Having done that upgrade, the spire fills the room much better. Also, if you have a discerning ear and your room is well treated, the new crossover improvement is SUBSTANTIAL. Of course, it won't fill the room like the clx or the cls, but the spire really plays with the big boys that are priced double or more in that department. I think this is the reason Tone award for the best price to performance ratio.

 

[JMAUSGP]

I went through this exercise some months ago when the used Spires and Summits reached parity in price. I had Vistas in the rear of my 5.1 channel system and was looking to go to a bigger panel just like you. Okay not just like you, but you know what I mean.

After much research, first hand listening, and second hand experiences of others on this forum, the conclusion was, you can not make a mistake with either the Spire or the Summit.

It really came down to what was available from where, meaning could I drive short to medium distance to pickup the used Spires or Summits so that I would not have to take the chance (risk) of shipping them.

And of course price, and previous ownership and how I would close the transaction all enter in to the equation too.

Given the above advice and further given the above transaction considerations you can not go wrong with either. And with flexibility and a proper EQ'd sub, you can't go wrong in the future either.

You know Vantages make great rear channel speakers.

 

[BobF]

Hello Gentlemen,

First off thank you very much for the help you have been giving my son. I told him this would be the site to go to and he listened ( only took him 36 years to listen to me ).

I told him in my opinion the Spires sounded like what would fit him and the call is his now.

He has been around music from an early age due to my sickness with audio and his mother being a dance instructor for 30+ years as well as playing drums for bands since the age of 16.
I think I may have created a monster
My very best,
Bob

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
While I completely agree that the Summit and Spire provide more of the magic so to speak, the difference in Panel size between the Vantage and the Spire is not that vast. We are talking 2 inches shorter (59" versus 57") and 2 inches more narrow (12.5 versus 10.7).

I do agree that the Spire does benefit from the enhanced Crossover, but the Crossover Network in the Vantage is quite good as well in regards to Panel to Woofer integration.

At the time of the Vantages release, several Professional Reviewers when comparing the Vantage to the Summit found the differences to be surprisingly slight given the difference in price. Ken Kessler went so far as to say "Make no mistake that the Summit outperforms the Vantage. But this will only be evident only in a larger space." Hifi News June, 2006.
Here is the Review: http://www.normanaudio.com/reviews/104921ML_Vantage_HiFi_News.pdf

Again, I think the Spire and Summit are fantastic Speakers. However, I feel that many underestimate the Vantages abilities. I realize that many upgraded from Vantages to Spires and Summits, but I believe it to be difficult to remember the differences when you upgrade to one of those Models unless you had both Pairs in your Listening Room at the same time. Especially with the Spire as it employs a single albeit larger Active Woofer rather than the dual Woofer configuration of the Summit.
Cheers,
JJ

 

[Necrosuit]

Thanks again for all the info! yes I agree, the Vantage is an amazing speaker and I absolutely love them, but Every other Logan I have heard with bigger panels just has that magical bigger stage/image that is stunning to me and only makes sense to follow that upgrade path. I do plan on keeping the Vantage and using them either in my living room with the 50" plazma and adding surround or when I get the bigger room and using them for rear channels, So they will not be un-appreciated.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Necro, I certainly understand where you are coming from. I decided to go 5.1 going with Vantages, Stage, Vistas for Surround and a Depth Subwoofer. I truly could not be happier.

Considering that I am at about 70/30 HT to Music, I am not sure how much sense it would make switching to the Spires or Summits. I have been lusting after Prodigies for some time and am seriously considering selling my Aerius i's that are in my 2 channel rig and put that towards them. What I have not decided is whether or not to put the Prodigy in my HT and moving the Vista's to the 2 channel setup. Decisions, decisions....
Cheers,
JJ

 

[Necrosuit]

Hey JJ,

yea I get it, these speakers are all amazing in their own right and all have great qualities. My dad (which posted earlier) has had the Prodigy for the last 5 years and are absolutely amazing! After I built my system and started the tweaking and got my system to a great sound point in my current room, I then go over to his house once a month and am still amazed at how much bigger the image and overall sound is compared to mine and I truly believe this is due to the size of the panels, (and also realize all the other factors of a system) I know the Prodigy has bigger panels than the Spire or Summit but at least gaining 4" of overall panel size over the Vantage I think will be better. But I am lucky to be able to soon have both speakers in the same house so I can truly do a back to back test and I will post my results.

 

[Bernard]

Necro, it seems to me that you should talk your dad into buying himself a pair of CLX's so that you can get the Prodigies as hand-me-downs.:devil:

 

[Necrosuit]

Bernard,
Funny you should mention that, we have had this discussion already! We even agreed that if I was able to partially pay for some of the CLX and keep them at his house (ofcourse) I would get the Prodigy hand me downs! ha.

 

[Gordon]

I've had the Vantage and the Spire in my room. Both speakers were driven with the same gear. My system is a 2.2, no HT.

The Vantage was my first ESL and only wetted my appetite! I had a very difficult time blending my sub (REL B1) so I eventually removed the sub. The bass was a bit weak to me but not a deal breaker.

I stepped up to the Spire because I wanted the "more"! More of what? Wider, deeper stage and a more formed bass. I think the sealed box on the Spire, along with the slightly larger woofer and the updated crossover almost got me there. I was happy for several months but always thought the bottom was a bit thin. I'm not a bass head at all but I wanted a bit more. Perhaps the Summit has the Spire beat in that area due to the extra woofer and additional controls at 25 and 50.

I've since added a pair of subs (stereo) and am quite pleased. The bottom has a fullness I was searching for while not being in your face. I could dial it up to that, but as I said, I'm not a bass head.

If you don't want multiple subs, the Summit probably would be my first choice, but since your doing HT, the Spire may be a reasonable choice. I could have stepped up to the Summit, but I have my eyes on the CLX which needs subs so I'm kinda looking towards the future with my additions.

Gordon (the other one )

 

[Bernard]

Bernard,
Funny you should mention that, we have had this discussion already! We even agreed that if I was able to partially pay for some of the CLX and keep them at his house (ofcourse) I would get the Prodigy hand me downs! ha.

Not much fun being the devil's advocate to sinners !

 

[Necrosuit]

Hey Gordon,

Actually Im doing 2 channel right now and will always have a 2 channel room to some level but will most likely update/grade to some sort of multi channel once i get too many speakers and cant let the others go . So the Spire or Summit will be used for 2 channel for at least a good year or two or may stay that way if they produce the sound Im after.

 

[Gordon]

Necro, do you have the ability to add some trapping to your room? If you hang around here enough, you'll find that many of us have dealt with the rear wave which after doing so, yielded great results! I now have 10 traps of various capabilities which, surprisingly my wife agrees with!! I want/need more but I may be pushing my luck!

Gordon

Don't let JM see this post! He'll have you on multi-channel in a heartbeat!

 

[Bernard]

Is there such a huge difference between the Summit and the Spire that you HAVE to consider the size of the room when trying to decide what to buy? I thought that it was just a question of price and availability.