Spire break-in period

[audemars]

Afternoon, all.

Just received a pair of Spires and they're not near as warm-sounding as my outgoing Vantages. Both sets were purchased used, but the Vantages sounded great from the start. I'm wondering if the prev Spire owner had yet to run through the 72hrs+ break-in.

What I'm hearing now is fatiguing/overly bright - are these characteristics indicative of a fresh panel/woofer? The manual only mentions bass shyness - but I'm experiencing mid-range shyness, too.

Thanks in advance!

 

[twich54]

Welcome, as another Vantage to Spire owner I can say i heard none of what you describe.

IMO, 'basic' break-in is accomplished within the first 40-60 hrs, subtlties continue after that for another 40-60 hrs and then it's whatever psychoacoustic brainwave anomoly you choose to believe !

 

[akm3]

Sorry you are having trouble, I think you need to sell the Spires to me on the cheap and go back to the warm goodness of your Vantages

In all seriousness, did anything (ANYTHING) else in your system change, other than switching from Vantages to Spires?

Do the spires require more amp than the vantages, and maybe you've exceeded your amp capacity and it sounds thin?

 

[Dougster]

Welcome, as another Vantage to Spire owner I can say i heard none of what you describe.

IMO, 'basic' break-in is accomplished within the first 40-60 hrs, subtlties continue after that for another 40-60 hrs and then it's whatever psychoacoustic brainwave anomoly you choose to believe !

Likewise a Vantage to Spire mover ... Vantage definitely brighter and thinner sounding than the fuller more natural Spire. Run in as Dave states IMO.
Spire still a bright speaker but with a lively unfatiguing quality.

 

[audemars]

Appreciate everyone's response.

I'm running the Spires w/Krell's new S300i integrated - which drove the Vantages well. If I had to put laymen words on what I'm hearing ... all the "S's" are overly pronounced ... cymbols are un-natural.

 

[User211]

Confusing - I just heard that combo and it sounded great - no trace of what you are describing. To me, it didn't even sound bright with the limited material I heard. A reviewer of the same combo liked it too...

What's your front end?

 

[FISH_MAN]

Appreciate everyone's response.

I'm running the Spires w/Krell's new S300i integrated - which drove the Vantages well. If I had to put laymen words on what I'm hearing ... all the "S's" are overly pronounced ... cymbols are un-natural.

that's strange man I have not heard what you describe It was much the opposite when I went from vantage to spire.

I wonder if Krell is really what some people think it is ????

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Aude,

What you are describing is "sibilance". Hard sounding consonants (letters c, s, and k are the likely suspects) to say another way.

Assuming the speaker is broken in, this would suggest something else is going on with your system and / or your room.

Once you are confident that the speaker is broken in (100 hours is a safe estimate), you may have to venture into the other hardware variables, as well as potential room treatments, to damp the brightness.

Just for kicks, have you tried adjusting the rake angle of the panel and have you checked the toe in and distance from the back wall to make sure it is not a general set up issue? As a general rule, distance from back wall, toe in, and rake angle should be the same (as close as you can possibly measure, minimal variations will be deleterious) to ensure that your setup is correct.

For better or worse, ML's can be quite revealing regarding placement as well as other hardware / room anamoly issues.

In addition, I believe the Spire's have a larger panel area than the Vantages. That maybe, in part, what you are hearing.

Good luck.

GG

 

[roberto]

Hola...just thinking loud, what kind of cables are you using? Silver might do what you are saying with Krell electronics, perhaps you need copper to warm a little bit the sound. Spires are bigger in panels, and I think that if you use the right cable, with all your electronics, you will be happier than the Vantages. Try Harmonic Tech cables, not the expensive ones, I wish a very happy listening,
Roberto.

 

[FISH_MAN]

just try some cheap cooper stranded 12guage wire and see if their is any difference before you invest in any more expensive wire. can we see a pic of your setup that may help us figure out you problem

 

[Mantana]

Afternoon, all.

Just received a pair of Spires and they're not near as warm-sounding as my outgoing Vantages. Both sets were purchased used, but the Vantages sounded great from the start. I'm wondering if the prev Spire owner had yet to run through the 72hrs+ break-in.

What I'm hearing now is fatiguing/overly bright - are these characteristics indicative of a fresh panel/woofer? The manual only mentions bass shyness - but I'm experiencing mid-range shyness, too.

Thanks in advance!

Prepare to be frustrated with your Spires (and i imagine w/most ML
speakers). They can sound fantastic with well recorded music, but
tend to emphasize the brightness of older and less impressive
recordings. I've seen too many postings of ML owners ditching certain
music altogether or relegating particular CDs to their car because the MLs
just didn't sound good on poorly recorded material. Below is an
opinion of a Scenario owner from audioreview:

"I spent hours comparing this speaker to several others in this price range, and the inescapable conclusion that I have for this speaker (and most other "electrostatic/ribbon/planar" speakers) is that it is rich in detail and resolution-though not warmth or smoothness-so long as that information occurs in the upper octaves. They are bright, sometimes verging on being edgy and sharp, for daily listening."

I think you need to carefully match your electronics to your
Spires. Their qualities...transparency, speed and clarity are
exceptional and desirable, but for everyday listening, realize
they can be fatiguing since most source material is not
well recorded and the MLs tend to be a shade a little
toward brightness.

I have this ambivalence with my Spires where sometimes i love the sound and other times
not so much. I find i limit myself to certain CD recordings or flip radio stations
to seek out the highest quality material. I don't want to spend more money on
electronics and am not sure if i did it would make much difference. It's just the
nature of the speaker.

 

[Zero]

You know whats crazy? The Vantage's are the least fatiguing speakers I've ever owned. I can't even get them to sound bright. In all honesty, it's music to my ears. :music:

 

[FISH_MAN]

Prepare to be frustrated with your Spires (and i imagine w/most ML
speakers). They can sound fantastic with well recorded music, but
tend to emphasize the brightness of older and less impressive
recordings. I've seen too many postings of ML owners ditching certain
music altogether or relegating particular CDs to their car because the MLs
just didn't sound good on poorly recorded material. Below is an
opinion of a Scenario owner from audioreview:

"I spent hours comparing this speaker to several others in this price range, and the inescapable conclusion that I have for this speaker (and most other "electrostatic/ribbon/planar" speakers) is that it is rich in detail and resolution-though not warmth or smoothness-so long as that information occurs in the upper octaves. They are bright, sometimes verging on being edgy and sharp, for daily listening."

I think you need to carefully match your electronics to your
Spires. Their qualities...transparency, speed and clarity are
exceptional and desirable, but for everyday listening, realize
they can be fatiguing since most source material is not
well recorded and the MLs tend to be a shade a little
toward brightness.

I have this ambivalence with my Spires where sometimes i love the sound and other times
i cringe. I find i limit myself to certain CD recordings or flip radio stations
to seek out the highest quality material. I don't want to spend more money on
electronics and am not sure if i did it would make much difference. It's just the
nature of the speaker.

this is purely incorrect in my opinion. the idea that a poorly recorded piece of music will sound better on less revealing equipment is not really true although I have delegated certain cd's to my car the overall sound their is still very poor comparatively. my Logan's have never ever sounded bright ever! I have driven them with fairly modest equipment and still do by some standards.

 

[audemars]

Pardon the delayed response - spent an hour or so last night tinkering w/placement, doing A/B comparos w/the Vantages, etc. Wound up w/same results ... Vantages = warm; Spires not so much. Spoke to prev owner - claimed they'd be broken-in approx 80 hrs.

Think I could limit everyone's suggestions/questions, by clarifying my situation ... This is my 4th pair of Logans (SL3, reQuest, Vantage, now Spire) - toe-in, room treatment, etc. are not new to me. Back 10+ yrs ago, my SL3s were paired w/a KAV500i, Rega Planet CDP and Transparent Ultra XL RCAs/cable. I understand source sensitivity. Today's setup, however, is a bit more scaled (tongue in cheek) ... S300i + iPhone source (lossless files via krell's descrete iPod input) + 16 guage wire. :ROFL: Barebones, but suprisingly impressive w/the Vantages.

So here's the deal .. why aren't the Spires performing at near or better levels over the Vantages when configured w/the same source/environment? Might the midrange flourish w/a cheap 12 guage wire upgrade?

BTW, The support on this forum is incredible. Much appreciated, fellas!

 

[FISH_MAN]

You know whats crazy? The Vantage's are the least fatiguing speakers I've ever owned. I can't even get them to sound bright. In all honesty, it's music to my ears. :music:

the vantages produce nothing short of a rounded beautiful effortless blossom of sound even with less than desirable recordings they do their best.

 

[akm3]

Pardon the delayed response - spent an hour or so last night tinkering w/placement, doing A/B comparos w/the Vantages, etc. Wound up w/same results ... Vantages = warm; Spires not so much. Spoke to prev owner - claimed they'd be broken-in approx 80 hrs.

Think I could limit everyone's suggestions/questions, by clarifying my situation ... This is my 4th pair of Logans (SL3, reQuest, Vantage, now Spire) - toe-in, room treatment, etc. are not new to me. Back 10+ yrs ago, my SL3s were paired w/a KAV500i, Rega Planet CDP and Transparent Ultra XL RCAs/cable. I understand source sensitivity. Today's setup, however, is a bit more scaled (tongue in cheek) ... S300i + iPhone source (lossless files via krell's descrete iPod input) + 16 guage wire. :ROFL: Barebones, but suprisingly impressive w/the Vantages.

So here's the deal .. why aren't the Spires performing at near or better levels over the Vantages when configured w/the same source/environment? Might the midrange flourish w/a cheap 12 guage wire upgrade?

BTW, The support on this forum is incredible. Much appreciated, fellas!

So, you still prefer the sounds from the Vantages?

I guess the only thing you can possibly do at this point is go listen to ANOTHER pair of Spires and see if they sound different to you. Maybe you just prefer the sound of the Vantage - it's not impossible.

... and then you could sell me your Spires on the cheap -=D

 

[FISH_MAN]

Pardon the delayed response - spent an hour or so last night tinkering w/placement, doing A/B comparos w/the Vantages, etc. Wound up w/same results ... Vantages = warm; Spires not so much. Spoke to prev owner - claimed they'd be broken-in approx 80 hrs.

Think I could limit everyone's suggestions/questions, by clarifying my situation ... This is my 4th pair of Logans (SL3, reQuest, Vantage, now Spire) - toe-in, room treatment, etc. are not new to me. Back 10+ yrs ago, my SL3s were paired w/a KAV500i, Rega Planet CDP and Transparent Ultra XL RCAs/cable. I understand source sensitivity. Today's setup, however, is a bit more scaled (tongue in cheek) ... S300i + iPhone source (lossless files via krell's descrete iPod input) + 16 guage wire. :ROFL: Barebones, but suprisingly impressive w/the Vantages.

So here's the deal .. why aren't the Spires performing at near or better levels over the Vantages when configured w/the same source/environment? Might the midrange flourish w/a cheap 12 guage wire upgrade?

BTW, The support on this forum is incredible. Much appreciated, fellas!

16 gauge wire is terrible! you need at least 12 and 10 is better.
find a dealer and demo some of the problem music you have their and see if it is the speakers although I really do not think this is the case

 

[audemars]

16 gauge wire is terrible! you need at least 12 and 10 is better.
find a dealer and demo some of the problem music you have their and see if it is the speakers although I really do not think this is the case

Yes, I'm ashamed. Will pick up some wire tonight (not ready to delve back into cables yet). So ... it's possible the Spires are more sensitive to guage? Thanks!

 

[twich54]

Think I could limit everyone's suggestions/questions, by clarifying my situation ... - toe-in, room treatment, etc. are not new to me.

One more question and a possible solution.......

Do you have your Spire's position at the same distance from the front wall as you had your Vantage's ? and if so, what is that distance ? Absorption, diffusion or a combination of the two on the front wall.

On thing I noticed with my transition from Vantage to Spire was due to the increased ESL panel and increase of a mere three inches further into the room along with some additional absorption DID make a difference.

So, paitence and persistence will pay off, for as good as the Vantage's are, and they are mighty good, don't kid yourself if you think the Spire's aren't better !!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

That was one possibility (larger panel size and need for adjustment) I suggested in my last post.

GG