Sources/Preface/Encore Discontinued?

[omntch]

Just got back from BB and found that the ML Sources are now selling for $879/ea - ouch, I just ordered some for $950/ea and thought I was getting a good deal. When I asked if they are being discontinued, I was told that as of April they will be (for BB).

They have already sold out of the Preface @ $499 (cherry) and the black version is now down to $439. You can find the Encore for $199 online.

I guess the Motion will be taking over the lower end. Gee, I wonder if I should stop the Source shipment?

 

[Jimna]

im not happy, i paid 800 each for mine last april.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
That is the thing with the Big Box Stores selling ML, when a product is discontinued, they blow them out at prices local ML Dealers never would.

This hurts resale value for those who purchased them at retail when they do this. Thankfully, most Magnolia A/V's do not sell the more expensive ESL Models (Vantage/Vista) even though they can and primarily sell Design Series or the resale value on these models would plummet as well.
Cheers,
ML

 

[40yearfan]

I just purchased a pair of the Preface (black) from Best Buy this morning. One heck of a deal.

I don't think it will hurt the value of those speakers that much, as very few pair of them will be sold at that price point. The Preface is absolutely the best speaker I've ever listened to in a home theater set-up (with an Encore TF center channel) because of the clarity and dispersion. A few years down the road, that won't have changed and you should still be able to get a decent price for them.

I know most of the guys on here have ML speakers for the musical characteristics, but 90% of my listening is in the HT mode. I'm really glad I found this site (recommended by a friend when he found out I was looking for speakers) as it convinced me to try these speakers out.

 

[FISH_MAN]

you know guys if you would like to invest in something that might have a financial return there is a cool thing called the stock market lol the returns are a lot better than they are buying bran new HIFI gear !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market

http://www.marketwatch.com/

I hope the links above help explain things a little

 

[Jimna]

smarty pants.

i guess i cant complain considering the hosing some here are taking on their summits and spires.....although i would gladly take the same hosing to have them playing here now. maybe ill capitalize on your loss and buy your discounted spires someday, Fish.

 

[Jungle Jack]

you know guys if you would like to invest in something that might have a financial return there is a cool thing called the stock market lol the returns are a lot better than they are buying bran new HIFI gear !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market

http://www.marketwatch.com/

I hope the links above help explain things a little

All of that might be true, but earlier ESL Martin Logans did hold a good bit more of their resale value. Ascent i's still fetch around 2 grand, Prodigy's for around 4-5 thousand Dollars. And these are 4-5 year old speakers.

I certainly did not buy my Speaker setup as an investment, but it is nice if they hold a decent percentage of their value should I want to upgrade. Part of what makes this hobby possible is the continual upgrade of Speakers and other components through the resale of old equipment.

 

[FISH_MAN]

smarty pants.

i guess i cant complain considering the hosing some here are taking on their summits and spires.....although i would gladly take the same hosing to have them playing here now. maybe ill capitalize on your loss and buy your discounted spires someday, Fish.

when I buy a pair of CLX's I will be happy to sell them to you real cheep and even drink a few beers with you while I help you load them into your ride

 

[Craig]

Just got back from BB and found that the ML Sources are now selling for $879/ea - ouch, I just ordered some for $950/ea and thought I was getting a good deal. When I asked if they are being discontinued, I was told that as of April they will be (for BB).

They have already sold out of the Preface @ $499 (cherry) and the black version is now down to $439. You can find the Encore for $199 online.

I guess the Motion will be taking over the lower end. Gee, I wonder if I should stop the Source shipment?

If you just bought the Sources soon enough then the Best Buy store should offer you a buyer's protection or "price protection" refund on the difference. You may want to check on the policy and ask if they'll honor that.

 

[omntch]

I had ordered the Sources through Amazon - not sure if it would be worth the extra money to ship them back. Their purpose is mostly for home theater and my research came up with that these combined with the Matinee center would make be a good system for that purpose. I might even start listening to music again.

I am looking for the best clarity for home theater (voice, sfx) as possible within my budget (less than $3500). And, if music is really that great - well that is just an added benifit.

I can still exchange them for the Preface/Encore (and save over $2000) if I find that they are not the right choice for my application. I was never really able to audition the Source vs the Preface side by side - but from what I did hear in separate rooms, the Sources seemed to disappear where as I could sense where the Prefaces where positioned most of the time.

 

[Jimna]

when I buy a pair of CLX's I will be happy to sell them to you real cheep and even drink a few beers with you while I help you load them into your ride

its a deal! ill bring some of Colorados best beers too.

 

[Jungle Jack]

I had ordered the Sources through Amazon - not sure if it would be worth the extra money to ship them back. Their purpose is mostly for home theater and my research came up with that these combined with the Matinee center would make be a good system for that purpse. I might even start listening to music again.

I am looking for the best clarity for home theater (voice, sfx) as possible within my budget (less than $3500). And, if music is really that great - well that is just an added benifit.

I can still exchange them for the Preface/Encore (and save over $2000) if I find that they are not the right choice for my application. I was never really able to audition the Source vs the Preface side by side - but from what I did hear in separate rooms, the Sources seemed to disappear where as I could sense where the Prefaces where positioned most of the time.

Hello,
I think if Clarity is your number one priority, going with the ESL Paneled Source is the way to go. The Preface does an excellent job, but is not an ESL Model. I sometimes use Monage's (ATF transducer like the Preface) as Surrounds and they do really well in that application with my Vantages, Stage, and Depth. I have a pair of Vista's that I sometimes switch between the Office and HT.

Also, by hoping you are saving Sales Tax with the Sources from Amazon, perhaps it will come out a wash.

Cheers,
ML

 

[omntch]

Well my Sources just came in and I have them hooked up via AudioQuest Type 4 cable to my Yamaha 663. I know these speakers are new and need to be broken in a bit, but I find them to be very directional and bit on the "harse" side at the moment. I have the stands turned around so the speakers are adjusted down directing the sound to the seating area and toed in (flashlight test) as recommended. They are 2 feet from the side and back walls and 9' apart. I am seated 10' from center.

My initial concern as to whether a 95wpc AVR would drive these is put to rest. At -20 my walls are shaking and I have found no clipping. (The AVR is set to 6ohm and driving 2 fronts, center, sides, rear and sub.)

Seated, the Sources are very crisp, but as soon as I stand, they become dampened. But, I will be listening to them seated -otheriwise I would need to move the stands to the stock, titled position.

I don't think the Preface has the issue of being so directional. I will give these bad boys the 100 hour burn-in and decide if these are the right way to go for Home Theater while the Prefaces are still obtainable.

If the Sources stay, I will need some advice on a center channel. I do thank everyone's help on this.

 

[JustinJ]

You have your source speakers too far apart. You want the distance between them to be 1.5 - 2 less than the distance from you.

Example:

My speakers are 7 feet apart, so my listening area has to be greater than 10 feet. You are not far away from the speakers right now. You also need to bring the speakers off of the wall.


They should be at least 30 inches from the side wall. The further away from the sidewall the better.

Do not measure with a flash light but only toe them in about 1 inch right now. The way to do this is measure from the wall to each corner of the speaker.

Example:

My speakers on each corner are 28 inches at 1 corner and 27 inches at the other corner.

You also need to take off the base and just leave them flat. The speakers take time to break in but if you will try some of these things which I wrote i , you should get better sound. I was not happy at all with my speakers at first, until I positioned them right. Now, the sound really comes into the room and is not directional. The sound envelops the room.

When you have them setup right, you should be able to close your eyes and hear the singer in the middle and the instruments on each side. It will sound like a concert with how the music comes to your ears. Let me know if you have any questions.

How big is your room that the speakers are in?

How far off the front wall are your speakers?

Justin

 

[omntch]

My mistake - the Soures are 9' apart and the seating is 11' back. They toed-in and 30" from the rear wall and 25" from side walls. The room itself is about 14' wide and about 20' deep. The sides surrounds are about 12' back and the rears are 20' back. The celing is 8' and all is sheetrock - but open on the left (to hall/stairs) and back right is open to another area (about 8x12). What I notice the most is that the Preface seemed to have more presence and clearner mids - I am hoping that will change during the break-in. Do you still think I should move these together?

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
If your Sources are brand new, I would give it at least 75-100 hours before making any critical observations as the Panels do take some time to sound their best.
Cheers,
ML

 

[Rich]

The harshness you hear may very well be from trying to drive these with an underpowered yamaha receiver. When I first bought my Ascents, I hooked them up to my Yamaha receiver and they sounded quite harsh. Much more harsh than the Def Techs I had hooked to the receiver before. But when I upgraded to quality electronics, it was like night vs. day. Much smoother and cleaner, more air in the highs and liquid mids, incredible clarity with not a hint of harshness. The ML electrostats are much more resolving than other speakers and crave high quality current. Most multichannel amps just can't give them what they need to sound their best.

 

[omntch]

Would I have been better off, then going the Preface route (not wanting to add a new AVR to my expense)?. The Yamaha is not that old and I would hate to put it out to pasture. Is there another route to take? Or should I really look more at the Preface? Or should I look for an amp? This "simple" upgrade to match timbre up front is really becoming more than I had planned for. I really appreciate your advice. Thanks again.

 

[JustinJ]

My room size is 15 x 19 . I think that you speakers are too far apart. Try to move them about 7 feet apart and do not toe them in. Just leave them straight ahead. If you do toe them in make it just about 1 inch difference. I found that at first, I had to pull my speakers further away from the wall. I am talking about the front wall not the side wall.

I would still remove the bases and not mess with the rake adjustment right now. You still have to wait for the speakers to warm up.

Now that my speakers have more than 100 hours on them, I have been able to move them closer to the wall. You will have to experiment. It took a couple of weeks for me to get happy.

It takes a while for the speakers to warm up. When I leave my house, I leave the music on during the day. This will help break them in. You could always put a cd in and have it on repeat while no ones home. If you do this for a week for 8 hours a day, it want take long to break them in.

Is there a wall behind each speaker or is one in front of a window?

I do not know what manual you have but the one on the martinlogan website was much more through than what came with my speakers. Here is the link for the manual on the website http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manuals/manual_source.pdf

I think before upgrading your amp that you want to work with the setup of the speaker placement. You also want to give the speakers at least 75 hours before deciding.
Justin

 

[Rich]

Would I have been better off, then going the Preface route (not wanting to add a new AVR to my expense)?. The Yamaha is not that old and I would hate to put it out to pasture. Is there another route to take? Or should I really look more at the Preface? Or should I look for an amp? This "simple" upgrade to match timbre up front is really becoming more than I had planned for. I really appreciate your advice. Thanks again.

Do you want the red pill . . . or the blue pill?

That receiver does look woefully underpowered for electrostats. You may well get better sound out of the Preface using that receiver. But if you want to hear what your Sources are capable of, you will need a more powerful amp for the front two channels. You don't have to put the Yammy out to pasture. Just use the preamp outputs for the main channels and bypass the internal amps, and put a decent high current solid state stereo amp in place for the Sources. You can use the Yammy as a preamp for the front two channels and an amp for the remaining channels.