So I decided to go naked

[Gordon Gray]

and removed all the acoustic panels in my room except for one panel on the floor on each side of the room.

As some of you may know, I auditioned some YG's recently and that did not work out. So I doubled down on trying to get better mid / low bass response with my MBL's.

The experience may not be applicable to all but I think it could be for some.

After all panels were removed, I started reinserting one by one so I could hear the impact of that specific panel. My large glass windows were certainly audible with the obvious brightness absent any absorption. I recalled all the MBL demos I've heard at various shows. Room typically untreated and all walls were drywall. So I had four 24" by 24" drywall squares made and placed on the window sill similar to the panel placement shown in my system picture.

The soundstage, speed, and dimensionality took a massive leap forward. Not to mention a near seamless tonal consistency from side wall to side wall. Definitely more on the "live" side of the sonic equation but far more engaging from my perspective. Hearing the acoustic of the recording venue became very easy. I decided to stay with this arrangement and started to re-install some bass panels at the base of the floor below the windows. What I gained in mid / low bass definition was more than offset by the apparent loss of space and dimensionality. So I've listened to my system for a week now with only the four pieces of drywall on the window sill and one panel on the floor at each side wall.

I've given up some apparent lower bass but I have gained so much more. For the moment, I am quite happy with the current arrangement. In fact, my system, to my ears, has never sounded better.

So just a thought to those who might want to re-visit their room treatments. In my case, less turns out to be definitely more.

GG

PS: This most recent exercise reinforces my belief that an ill defined mid / low bass can have significant negative impacts on overall system performance and how important it is to not "over treat / over dampen" a room. Of course, YMMV.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I understand this well. In my case I added a couple more bass traps and voila, one dimensional, thuddy, muddy, one note overpowing bass. Took them out and now have great bass again.

 

[twich54]

patience and experimentation pays off Gordon !

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

Lack of patience and experimentation was an expensive lesson. One I will not soon forget.

Had I done this two months ago, I would not have gone through the YG drama.

I thought age brought wisdom.

Gordon

 

[slowGEEZR]

No, it brings arthritis.

 

[twich54]

Dave,

I thought age brought wisdom.

Gordon, remember ...... "today is the oldest you've ever been but the youngest you'll ever be" !

 

[amey01]

Good post Gordon - room treatments make such a difference to a system that it is all to easy to automatically think "different" = "better". It does not.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Dave,

You make me laugh. Always a good thing.

Steve, thanks for the reminder. Fortunately, I don't have any symptoms. Yet.

Adam, a wise perspective.

Gordon

 

[JonFo]

For Omnis like the MBL, what you've done makes sense, glad its working well for you.

I totally agree that getting the mid-bass right is critical to good overall performance. It is often times the weak point of a speaker/room combo, and it's easy to under or overdamp those regions.

 

[RUR]

I recalled all the MBL demos I've heard at various shows. Room typically untreated and all walls were drywall.

Hey Gordon,

At last year's Newport T.H.E. Show, they ran the 101's with some interesting diffusors on either side. Looked to be clear acrylic, maybe 5' tall, 10-12' front to back. I should've asked who made them, but I didn't. Don't recall any treatment on front or rear walls, and we were sitting up against that rear wall. Sounded glorious, of course.

If they use the diffusors again this year, I'll find out more.

 

[bonzo]

Hi Gordon, all systems I have heard with treatment so far have sounded unnatural, and there is no live feeling. I have tried both diffusors and traps, and while I don't do any measurement and stuff, it is easy to make out that there is a loss of soundstage and space. Some dealers I respect have also warned me against using treatment in my room (and they actually sell traps).

It might make sense if someone has a bad room with too much bass boom so that you are getting the lesser of the two evils, but not otherwise. IMO this has nothing to do with hifi, just plain music sense that comes from listening to live shows. Traps generally suck out energy. I have a carpet, that's about it. I might add the most basic GIK 242 to treat reflections and brightness, but that too with skepticism.

I will be demoing some new traps they have out here, because I can demo them free, with an expert dealer, and will report back

 

[User211]

Jerry the MBL 116F owner used some for a bit then sold them. - well, all but one which he has right behind his head. Mind you, he listens extreme nearfield - about 7 foot away! Actually, it is not as bad as that might sound.

I do use some absorbers behind the Duettas in the corners. Had a session with 3 people present, all of who deemed the absorbers in place as preferable. I've taken them out and it seriously is NOT as good. Definitely makes for a better soundstage with less "echo".

 

[bonzo]

Justin your room is different. It's smaller and I can imagine there will be a boom without it. However if you took them up to the living room you will find music sounds better without

 

[User211]

Impossible. Banned by wife.

The Duetta room is a good sounding room IMHO. I used to run my Logans in a 12 by 30 foot room (last house). They were way better in the now Duetta room. It's the mid range ribbon reflection the traps tidy up more than anything.

Concrete floors rule - one big advantage over the lounge. I realise I'm lucky in that respect.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi all,

Thank you all for your comments.

I think the common theme of all the posts is that each room is different and must be judged on its own unique "signature". Or to say another way, to treat or not to treat.

Although I respect acoustical measurements, IMHO, "getting it right" reaffirms the venerable phrase "trust your ears".

GG

 

[bonzo]

Marck (the CLX guy) also took of his traps, found them to be sucking energy

 

[User211]

Did you go round to Marck's, Kedar? If you did, what did you think of the CLX?

Removing the traps in my room certainly increases "energy" levels and makes the sound more "live". But there's a load of energy left with them in, I find.

 

[bonzo]

Marck is never in London. Turns out one of the MDs in my bank owns one, I looked him up on the intranet and he lives a two minute walk from me. Have to try and get to him.

Yes it will make it live and imo better. That absorbed music might be more correct but this is more live. Try the shun mook's next heh

 

[Rich]

My experience in my room is that traps improved the sound. I have bass traps in all corners and traps directly behind the Summits to absorb rear wave. I have very tight and controlled bass response, and no reflective energy from the rear wave to muddy imaging and sound staging. I experimented with bare walls, some quadratic diffusors, and the traps behind the speakers. Bare walls and diffusors gave me too much reflected energy (particularly in upper mids and highs) and muddied the clarity and soundstage. Without the traps, the sound may have been "livelier" but there was too much energy and I had to turn the sound lower, resulting in poorer overall sound. Clarity and imaging suffered. I find with the traps I can turn the sound up as high as I would want and get great, lively sound and a great soundstage, with excellent clarity and imaging. I hear only the source wave, with no delayed reflections to impair that sound. This works for me with my system in my room. The room is only 14' x 19', so that certainly plays a role.

Gordon's room and system is very different, so it doesn't surprise me that he found the need for a different solution. I have heard his system on several occasions and it always sounds great. So I have full faith that he knows what he is doing. Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress, Gordon.

 

[greg2putt]

Rich, I recall you have lots of glass on one side wall? Did you find an acoustic window treatment for that side of the room? I'm hoping to find an attractive cellular or pleated shade solution for my 12' of French doors with transom over them. My room is 18 x 25 with the summits on the 18' wall voicing lengthwise with 10' ceilings with a large 14' vault in the room center. I'll have acoustic insulation in interior wall behind summits with stud isolation.


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